Cornet MP - Alliance Wick Curry

[freimers]

Changed my mind a bit and deleted what I wrote previously.

Right now I'm between a Wick 2BW and a Curry 1.25 VC and waiting to get an Alliance RM1A (Richard Marshall).

I can play smaller rim sizes successfully for a couple of days but then my embouchure is sore and I have to take a day or two off. I can play on the Wick every day.

I love the Curry 1.25 VC, has the larger rim size and my range is better with it but I just had to take a day off after playing it for 4 days. Not sure what that means exactly.

The Alliance is the last mouthpiece I will try, though I've said that before. I ordered the RM1A (Richard Marshall). He is the best brass band cornetist in the world right now so it must be the best! Right?

Still searching.
_________________
S.E. Shires CVP Bb Trumpet
S.E. Shires 5S C Trumpet
S.E. Shires CN7A Cornet
Getzen 4-Valve Flugelhorn

[etc-etc]

Concentrating on Wick mouthpieces:
1) Wick 2BW is too tubby and exhausting with no high range. You need a narrower rim.
2) Wick 4 is most comfortable, but tiring: you are OK with the no-letter rim, but need a smaller cup.
3) Wick 4BW is uncomfortable and too bright. Stay away from the W (wide) rim. Stay away from the B cup (too shallow).

Hence: try Wick 4.5 and 5.

Consider Wick Heritage 4, 4.5 and 5.

Consider Wick Heavytop 4, 4.5 and 5.

Consider Wick 1X - it has a different shape of the cup.

[Subtropical and Subpar]

For me, Curry's rims are just about the most comfortable out there, along with Monette. Feel/comfort is entirely personal and subjective, of course, but I can see why you landed on them to help deal with / recover from the embouchure overuse you mentioned.

As for Yamaha BBC-style pieces, have you tried to David King model? They aren't easy to find, but they are quite comfortable and sport an inner diameter that I would say is around a 3, maybe on the small side of 3, which would put it roughly around your desired specs. Very deep, verymellow.
_________________
1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel

[freimers]

etc-etc - Thank you for your reply.

I thought about the Wick 4.5 and 5, but I sort of made a decision to look for rims in the .660 range. The Wick 4 is already smaller at (.649) and I can feel the difference, the 4B is .646 and I can't play it.

I went to an ITG a couple of years ago looking for trumpet MPs, Peter Pickett and Cliff Blackburn themselves listened to me play while trying mouthpieces and they said I sounded best with the Pickett 3 size rim (.660) so I'm trying to stick with that as it seems to be working. I thought I sounded better on a 2 but I trust their judgement better than mine. Even with my current choice I'm going to try to annoy someone by asking them to listen to me obsess.

I use a Shires (Pickett) 3C on trumpet that I love. The Shires rim shape is a little different than the Picket so it's not just the rim size but also the shape. I'm not an expert obviously.

I was thinking, however, of going the other way from your suggestion and thought of trying a Wick 3 which is 16.75 (.659), but I never hear anything about people playing a Wick 3. It's always Wick 2, 2B, 4, 4B, 4.5 or 5.

What's up with the 3s?

The smallest MP I could play successfully was my Bach 7C with a 119 backbore on that I used for piccolo. So what is the rim size of a Bach 7C? It's up for debate. The Ultimate Mouthpiece Comparison chart says that the measured 7C rim is .650 and the specs are .638. Well if my 7C is "as measured" then it matches up perfectly with the Wick 4.

The 4B, 4.5 are smaller than the 4 which is strange and the 5 is much smaller at .629.

I wonder if I like the 4 better than the 4BW because of the cup size and shape. The choice between depth (deep, medium) and shape (V-Type, Open). It seems that Deep and Open give people the most desirable BB sound so if I tried a 3 I would probably try a straight 3 or 4.5 per your suggestion.

I just couldn't play any smaller cup like a D or E just never worked, I could feel my lip in the bottom of the cup. I always had more endurance with slightly larger. When I was principal in orchestras I always played a 1C or 1.5C. If I was playing lead outdoors I used my Bach 7C with the 119 backbore, it projected real well and I could play all night. Those were the days.

Thanks again.

[freimers]

[Seymor B Fudd]

My story seems rather similar to yours. However I began playing cornet in our brass band; went from Cosicups, Salvation Army 1 to Bach 1 1/4 C which I played during almost 30 years (front row). On trumpet in big band the same mpc, lead.
Mid 1990s I (falsely) thought that my lack of development had something to do with the mouthpiece so I saddled the camel and went on a Safari. Schilke 14 seemed OK. But at 71-72 overuse, embouchure crashing.

In the meantime the brass band sound went Wicky (I didn´t say wacky) so darker sound became in demand. I unsuccessfully tried Wicks during some years but they just didn´t work (2, 3 4BW). In the meantimeI began playing lead again in big bands which complicated my playing. How to combine?

My solution was to have Schilke make me a "semi deep" 14 3D3 which I use in the brass band and for all practising. It can get bright but if I really try to play cornetty it goes under the director´s radar. I´ve tried Curry but didn´t like the rim. Good sound though. (Schilke 14B lead)

However - if only brass band then the Wick Ultras would be my choice. 1,5 or 7. Not that I find them superduper - but good enough.
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)

[freimers]

Thank you for sharing your story. I will look into Shilke MPs. However, I played a hard 2.5 hour rehearsal last night and outlasted the young bucks on the Curry. I also pulled out the Wick 4 and compare on a melodic piece and there wasn't much difference, though I can play lower better on the Wick. The Shires(Pickett) 3BB piece should show up today to try out. We're playing a band festival in a couple of weeks so I want to settle on one by tomorrow for now.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about this video with Tom Huchinson playing the Wick standard, heritage and ultra for comparison. I was going to try a heritage based on a comment I saw until I saw the price. A couple of comments said the ultra was sharp, I thought it was just brighter. What do you like about the ultra?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1GrLfRH2HQ

[etc-etc]

[freimers]

Thanks to those who shared their experiences along this thread.

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front)

I like the Shires B3 British Style Cornet Mouthpiece better than the other mouthpieces I've tried, even the Curry that I had success. I'll use the standard Shires 3C MP for anything that is high and a trumpet sound is OK. The Shires are made by Pickett. As mentioned below, it is a custom design by Shires, not the standard Pickett cornet MP. I'm going to try to find out what the difference is from Shires. Maybe the gap or something else is customized for Shires cornets.

Second place is the Wick 4. I can make the Shires sound like the Wick 4 but it's naturally a little bit clearer of a sound though still dark. The Wick always has that kind of smoky sound to it and is harder to play high.

Disappointingly, the sound of the Curry 5BBC, which I thought was the winner yesterday, doesn't match up with the Shires. The Shires is very comfortable and it is much easier to play in the high range than the Wick 4, just like the Curry. But, the Shires is much more responsive in the low range as well with a better sound.

The mouthpiece is stamped as a B3 but I ordered it as a 3C from Woodwind and Brass for $85. Link is below.

Pickett has their own line of British style cornet mouthpieces that I know a bunch of people are playing on. I haven't tried them personally, they list for $150.

As listed below I compared the following:

Bach 1.5C
Curry 5BBC
Shires (Pickett) 3C Standard
Shires (Pickett) B3 British Style
Wick 2BW
Wick 4
Wick 4BW

Shires B3 (3C) MP Description

Silver-plated cornet mouthpiece with V-cup design.

S.E. Shires British Style Cornet Mouthpieces were developed and produced in cooperation with Peter Pickett of Pickett Brass. These models feature a general V-cup design and a short, balanced backbore. Utilizing the most popular sizes of British style short-shank cornet mouthpieces, these models feature the warm sound, excellent response and great intonation consistent with classic cornet mouthpieces. All mouthpieces come standard in silver plated finish.

https://www.wwbw.com/SE-SHIRES-British-Style-Custom-Series-Cornet-Mouthpiece-in-Silver-L86544.wwbw

[Subtropical and Subpar]

As you seem to be testing both very deep cornet mouthpieces along with some C cup depths, I'll mention an intermediate depth mouthpiece that is my favorite and go-to cornet mp: a Monette B1-1. Got it used from someone here at the TH marketplace. An older Monette model, not a Prana or any of that. It's roughly like a Bach 1B, maybe a bit deeper, with an ultra comfortable rim and sound to die for. Not a British Brass Band sound, more a 'Gerard Schwarz plays the Arban showpieces" lush American cornet timbre.
_________________
1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel

[freimers]

Thanks. I only know of the heavy Monette MPs. I'll look into it.

[Subtropical and Subpar]

[Dale Proctor]

I generally play a Curry 3C on trumpet. On cornet in brass band, I played a Curry 3BBC when the range was demanding, and a Wick 4 on the back row. I find the Curry 3 rims to be very comfortable, and the Wick 4 rim is ok unless I have to play above the staff on it a lot. Much better endurance on the Curry, a more mellow sound on the Wick - the old tone vs. endurance conundrum…
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Seymor B Fudd]

I listened to Tom Hutchinson comparing Wick and tried to rate them with respect to some variables;
muffled - open Richness (spectrum) Clear Bright

Classic Very Narrow Diffuse Dark

Heritage Less muffled Richer less diffuse less dark

Ultra Least muffled Richest Rather clear Not that dark

Personal ratings - maybe only applying to me. Also I got the impression that he raised the pitch some Hz while playing the Ultra.

Then, of course, his sound is brilliant, dolce, singing, minimum of effort.

My favourite sound here is produced by the Ultra (but then I miss the old UK brass band sound, pre-Wicks)
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)

[nonchalant]

Any update regarding the Alliance RM? I'm looking for a new cornet mouthpiece and review I heard about Alliance makes me want to try them.

[iiipopes]

For my old 921 Globe Stamp Sov, I started like everyone else with a Wick 4B. Good tone. But the throat is a little large for me so I was losing range and stamina.

I bought a Curry BBC. Great tone, but the intonation was a little off. I measured the tip of the shank. The Wick is .005" larger than the Curry. So I had Mark make me a pair of mouthpieces, a 3BBC and a 3TC, all to his stock spec other than making the shank the .005 larger diameter.

Ahhhhhh. I like these two mouthpieces: the BBC and all its mellow goodness for the back row, and the TC with a little more presence for the front row.
_________________
King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet