Typical insertion amount for a Bach Strad

[Louise Finch]

I've reached my conclusions. I've done my usual practice routine on both my Bach 37 and Xeno II, then practiced the specific pieces that I'm playing in my community light orchestra. I've recorded myself and had a listen back.

These are my thoughts. Now that I've returned to the James R New 6 sleeve on my Bach (which I'll be sticking with), I would say that the both trumpets have a pretty similar level of blow resistance. The Bach 37 is that little bit more open in the upper register, but nothing that would take too much of an adjustment. I noticed this in my symphony orchestra last Monday when coming in on long high Bs and Cs after a few bars rest. When I switched from my Xeno II to Bach 37, the notes initially felt a little more open, and when I switched back, the notes initially felt a little tighter, but I quickly adjusted both times.

Slotting was also different on both trumpets, but not significantly so. I definitely now feel that all this concern about my Bach 37 leadpipe was unjustified.

My conclusion. I just prefer the blow of my Xeno II. It seems more consistent throughout the registers, and listening to the recording, I prefer my sound on the Xeno II also, although there is such little difference, I honestly do think that anyone would notice. Actually it may not be my sound as such I'm preferring, rather I feel that you can hear the evenness of response of my Xeno II.

I'm going to stick with my Xeno II. My Bach 37 can stay as a decent spare. I don't see much point spending time and money on it, when I really like my Xeno II.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[Louise Finch]

I informed my modern jazz saxophonist husband of my decision, and he says that he prefers my sound on the Bach 37, and that he considers it a little more open and free sounding. Although he reckons that I sound much the same on everything, as to be honest does he (I cannot tell the difference from one make of reed to another, and don't even realise sometimes when getting on with other things in the house and not really listening that he is playing alto sax rather than soprano, until he plays too low for soprano sax), he reckons that my Xeno II is comparatively a little stuffy sounding, a little orchestral.

I've had many compliments on my sound on my Xeno II, and I don't think that it sounds stuffy sounding, just even in response and sound, but I agree that the Bach 37 is a little more open and has a little more character to the sound.

I think that on one hand I have a very even sound and response on my Yamaha, and on the other, I have a little more character on my Bach 37, but with a less even sound and response. I think this pretty much sums up the historic difference between Bach and Yamaha.

Maybe I'll give the Bach a go for a while and see how I find it. How many times I try it, I've never spend any length of time on it as my primary trumpet, and that may be making a difference to my thoughts.

I ultimately don't think that it will really make any difference what I play anyhow.

All I know, is that I know that my Xeno II plays great as it it. If I do think that it feels tight to blow after spending time on the Bach, I will know to keep my mouthpiece set-up the same and leave it to feel familiar again.

Decisions, decisions.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[JayKosta]

like the song said

"ya better go home son, and make up yer mind"

"pick up on one, and let the other one ride"





;
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Louise Finch]

[Andy Cooper]

[Louise Finch]

I've just had my husband listen to a blind test of me playing both trumpets. Which did he choose?

He chose the Xeno II.

My Bach is becoming my spare.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[abontrumpet]

[Louise Finch]

[Louise Finch]

[abontrumpet]

[Louise Finch]

Very interesting, thanks very much, Abontrumpet.

Regarding my Bach 37 and my Yamaha Xeno II, I don't know. Maybe everybody would say that my Yamaha Xeno II is better than my Bach 37.

I do however think that it is possible that someone could just prefer the playing characteristics of a Yamaha to a Bach. Why would that not be possible?

I think that you are saying that I should think that my Bach is great and my Yamaha is great, but have a preference for one over the other, and that because I don't think that my Bach is great, that this definitely means that there is something wrong with it.

I'll leave that as a point of discussion for you all.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[abontrumpet]

[Louise Finch]

[JayKosta]

[Louise Finch]

[Louise Finch]

Also, I'm still wondering whether I'm playing the right sleeve on my Bach 37. I'm playing a James R New 6.5 sleeve on my Yamaha Xeno II. This I consider to be just right.

I'm playing a James R New 6 sleeve on my Bach 37. This inserts 24mm like 4 different Bach mouthpieces I've measured the insertion amount of in my Bach 37. My other Bach mouthpiece inserts even further, like a James R New 6.5 sleeve. I'm wondering whether something simple like a switch to a James R New 5.75 or 5.5 sleeve may be all that I am looking for, and is surely a cheaper option.

Also, I don't think that Jim New currently has any sleeves in stock to try. Does anyone know how Reeves sleeves compare?

Also will Reeves sleeves fit a mouthpiece cut for sleeves by Jim New?

Many thanks

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[Andy Cooper]

It's easy to tell if you need a bigger "gap".
First take a marking pen and mark the point where your present mouthpiece enters your receiver.

Next read this:

https://bobreeves.com/blog/this-one-simple-trick-can-make-trumpet-easier/

With the paper inserted you should see the increased "gap" amount by the space between the marked line on your mouthpiece shank and the end of the receiver.

If things are better using the slip of paper, you need a smaller number sleeve.
If things are worse, you may be at your optimum or need a larger number sleeve.

[Louise Finch]

[Louise Finch]

I decided against trying a lower number sleeve in my Bach 37. My James R New 6 sleeve inserts 24mm like my 2005 Bach 3C, which is presumably typical for a Bach mouthpiece, as all but one of the Bach mouthpieces I have, insert the same. I'm not going to claim that they all insert absolutely identically, but they are all within 0.25mm of a mm, less than one 1/4 sleeve, which alters the insertion amount by 0.396875mm, so basically 0.40mm.

The reason for my decision is that Yamaha trumpets do have a little more resistance than a Bach 37. I think that it would be stupid to compensate for this by going to a lower number sleeve. I think that it is best to leave my Bach 37 as it is, when I want to play it. I don't want to create a tighter than usual Bach 37, just because I'm used to more resistance in my Yamaha.

Additionally, I also think that it is a case of getting each instrument playing the best it can for you, not trying to match the resistance of all of them. And also, I don't think that it possibly has a little more blow resistance is really what I like about my Yamaha. I personally think that my Bach 37 has a more open upper register, which I actually prefer to the upper register of my Yamaha. It is the overall blow and evenness of response which I prefer on my Yamaha, and nothing I do with sleeves or anything else, is ever going to make my Bach play like my Yamaha. They naturally have a very different type of blow.

Basically, there are things I prefer about my Bach, but more things that I prefer about my Yamaha, and I prefer my Yamaha overall. Put both cases side by side, and I will pick my Yamaha up everytime before going out the door. I don't dislike my Bach how it is, feel it plays badly or anything like that, it is just not my preferred Bb out of the two I own. I think really this needs to be my final point or I'll drive myself and everyone else mad on here lol.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[Louise Finch]

May lol be a change of plan. After two really good rehearsals on my Xeno II, I had a brass band rehearsal on my Bach 184ML cornet tonight. Apart from playing one tune on my cornet in my orchestra rehearsal, I haven’t spent anytime on this cornet since last Wednesday. All was fine, but the difference in blow was very apparent, and I didn’t have quite the endurance I’ve recently had on cornet. Maybe it was one of the those weeks, but after having been on very good firm for the last two days on trumpet, it was totally unexpected. I’m convinced that if I had been on my Xeno II trumpet, I would have had the endurance of the last few days. Probably I should have spent some time on my cornet earlier today, but I didn’t have time.

I’m wondering if Bach to Bach would be an easier switch. I’m going to give it a try anyhow. My friend has lent me his Bach 37, which has turned out to have a light weight bell.

A couple of observations.

I’ve had a look down his leadpipe. I’m not prepared (RR) to put a pencil or toothpick down and see if I can catch on the end of his leadpipe, but his leadpipe looks like it doesn’t have a ledge either, so maybe Bach were like this during this period.

My James R New 6 sleeve and 2005 Bach 3C insert 24mm in my Bach 37, they insert around 23mm in his Bach. There was a Bach 1 1/2C in the case. That inserts 25mm in his Bach and 26mm in mine, without bottoming out in either.

I’m going to try his Bach tomorrow. My other friend is going to lend me his also. I was hoping to try all three together, but I forgot that my other friend won’t be at our jazz band rehearsal Friday, and we only rehearse fortnightly. My other friend has said that I can borrow his Bach for as long as I like, but I don’t want to borrow it from him for too long.

It will be interesting how it all pans out.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs