Want to be a better Jazz Player?

[Don Ellis]

Play Piano, learn how to play changes correctly. Know where the Guide Tones are, know the Melody of the tunes you are learning. Don't give up on Piano playing! Write simple songs, work out some Harmonic structure, then work out all the Jazz Tunes you want to really play well. A great test of your skills is to play changes with your left hand and play Trumpet with your right hand. You can play shells (3rds and 7ths) with your left hand and solo over that with your Trumpet. This works if you stay with it.

[Bill Ortiz]

Absolutely spot on :)
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[Bronxgroove]

I'll have to try that. Sounds like fun.
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[Richard III]

Great idea if you have lots of extra time. For working people, probably not possible as they struggle to find the time to practice one instrument.

Realistically how long do you think it would take to gain that level of proficiency on piano starting from scratch?
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[kehaulani]

. . . a long time.
But the core suggestion is workable and is a long-established concept. Nothing new. Learning just the fundamental use/orientation of the piano, and its relation to tunes/chords, can help one make a big step forward.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

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[Don Ellis]

I started gigging when I was 16 or so, hundred years ago. An older Piano player got on me about playing the wrong 7ths and showed me some things. I read in Down Beat that Dizzy played some Piano so I would use the Piano at school (we didn't have one at home) when I'd rest on the play and rest routine my teacher gave me. In college I hit it harder for Piano Proficiency which helped my meager technique. Helped a lot in Theory class, Composition. For Jazz Improv I started doing the left hand piano/right hand play trumpet (Aebersold was just coming out, no Patterns For Jazz Coker book). No class yet for Jazz except Jazz Band so I had to figure out what I could do listening to recordings. Anyway, it helped.

[Trumpjerele]

And why not the guitar? Wouldn't it serve the same purpose?

I'm not a guitarist, but I'm skilled enough to play the chord changes at tempo.

I bought a loop pedal to record my own backing tracks, but I also like to play a little guitar after dinner and putting the kids to bed.

It's an instrument full of curiosities....
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[stuartissimo]

Probably true, but not for me. I really don't like playing the piano, mainly because it's the staple instrument that every semi-serious musician is supposed to be able play. I'll leave piano-playing to the greats who can actually make it sound the way it's supposed to.

But on the flip side, I have found that writing music offers similar benefits, as does playing the drums (which at least groups you with the people playing the chord progressions). The concept of 'looking at music from a different perspective' is solid advice, and can really enrich your skills on your primary instrument.
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1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
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AR Resonance mouthpieces

[jimspeedjae]

Any instrument that can play multiple notes gives you an ability to work on harmony as well as melody - both paino and guitar (less so to me, at least) also provide a visual aid to harmonic progression.

But study some basics - everyone wants a Dizzy or Clifford transcription to learn. But you can't beat learning the basics of harmony - it's great for foundations for improvising, arranging/composing and generally understanding music.

Where to start...go and study the Bach 4-part chorales. You'll learn progressions but also how to balance chords and proper harmonic movement in individual parts. As my old techer used to say - Bach did it first.

[kehaulani]

" I read in Down Beat that Dizzy played some Piano."

In fact, if I'm not mistaking, Bird wanted to study with Diz and Diz said, "Learn piano first."
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[LadFree]

One of the best things you can do is to learn
tunes in as many keys as you can..Start with Blues in all keys
move on to "I got Rhythm" in all keys,and when you feel
proficient move on to Standards in all keys..I do this with my
students and they really improve fast..There are Aebersolds
for this and youtube backing tracks..You can get Irealpro
which allows you to practice tunes at any tempo/any key
so you can get a grip on things at "Tempo de Learno"
Of course learning theory is great and knowing about guide tone lines.
After you do these things..and only when you are confident,
then we must remember what the great Miles Davis said:
Practice this stuff at home but when you get on the bandstand, forget all that
s..t!
Or something like that..

[Halflip]

[mike ansberry]

I need to find time to do this. Playing changes on the piano lets you see right in front of you what happens harmonically.
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Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[kehaulani]

I did all the things above, but I really found it helpful to look at transcriptions of solos and see how certain isolated notes laid in/on certain chords.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Don Ellis]

[Don Ellis]

[Don Ellis]

[tptLad]

Very happy to see this thread pop up!
I started on piano before moving to trumpet, and it has definitely helped me understand how jazz/trumpet/music in general works.

Didn't know the tidbit about Diz, though. Very interesting!
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"Life is a lot like jazz… it's better when you improvise." - George Gershwin

[falado]

Hi, guitar! Years ago, when I first started arranging for the road bands I played with, it would have been hard to carry a portable piano. The FENDER Rhodes was just too big and heavy. I taught myself to play guitar and bass during my practice rest sessions. I not only worked scales, but changes through the real book on both instruments. This was valuable as I began to see, and hear, chord progression, turn anrounds, and the corresponding chord scales. Then when listening to solos I began to pick these things I was hearing up. This made arranging and playing changes easier. You need to incorporate some ear training into your practice too. Sing it play it. Play piano, or guitar. Playing bass lets me hear the road map. As a result I also became more valuable as a performer as I could double on non horn tunes. When I played Pippin some years ago I played some of the guitar and trumpet parts.

Dave
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[LaTrompeta]

This is THE best advice for any musician, IMO. I've been working on piano lately and it's tough for me, but I learn so much about music as I progress and it opens an entirely new world for me. I so wish that I had been more mature as an 8 year-old when my parents made me take piano lessons!
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