| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
thesplitmeister
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 819
Location: Manchester- England
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:19 am Post subject: Question for those using a Yamaha Tom Hooten on C trumpet |
 |
|
| I know I’m not the only one who loves the Yammy Tom Hooten mouthpieces on my C trumpet but don’t find it lines up with my Bb. I’m intrigued what solutions you’ve found out there. I use a Yamaha 17B4 on the Bb which I’m pretty happy with but no way near as happy as my C combination. Let me know what your solutions are |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
loudog
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2001
Posts: 1444
Location: Hastings, NE
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
I do use a Hooten from time to time on C trumpet, but not usually on Bb (I usually use it for orchestra gigs where I need something a little more forgiving than my Parke...although I don't think I sound as good on the Hooten as the Parke, but that's a different story).
You might get a second one and cut the top of, get it threaded, and experiment with smaller backbores. I think that's likely what I would do... I use the same Parke top on both horns, but different backbores and it works well. You can really match them up to get the response you are looking for.
_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Louie Eckhardt, trumpeter
http://www.LouieEckhardt.com
Associate Professor of Music
Hastings College |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sarcastic Musician
Regular Member
Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 77
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Vennture has a scan of the Hooten mouthpiece.
Download VennCAD, mess with the cup diameter, change the backbore, change the rim. Then you can get prototypes 3D printed to see what effects your changes have. Then (if you want) you can order your favorite in brass. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
I see from your past posts that you use a Yamaha C trumpet.
What Bb trumpet do you play?
(The point of my question - there can be some mp gap issues with Yamaha mouthpieces and trumpets that might affect the Hooten's performance on another brand of trumpet. So it might not just be a Bb C issue. I noticed that you said you were just "pretty happy" with the 17b4 on Bb.)
Jon Kaplan has a nice video on the differences between the 17b4 and the Hooten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIllrN0xi_Q |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thesplitmeister
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 819
Location: Manchester- England
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I have a Yamaha Bb too. A Xeno C and a NY Bb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chrisf3000
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 347
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The answer is because the Hooten has a variation on a 24 backbore. That is way too big for the average player on Bb. Glad it works for you on C, but I'd be looking at separate mouthpieces for each horn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| thesplitmeister wrote: | | I have a Yamaha Bb too. A Xeno C and a NY Bb |
Good - that's one problem you can check off the list.
Next, how is the standard 17B4 better on your Bb than the Hooten?
Other than the backbore, they have a different rim, different throat size and different entrance to the throat.
Rabbit hole #1
If you can spare $120 or so, you could have a Hooten cut and threaded for a top. You could then experiment with different backbores. The main problem would be that the Hooten has a 3.785 mm throat compared to 3.658. You would have a mis-match with standard #27 throats. I do it all of the time - they still play well enough to allow you to evaluate. One mouthpiece maker's solution was to chamfer the top of the backbore to make a more gradual transition. (Most brands of stock backbores will not be an exact fit for Yamaha so the mouthpiece gap will then be an issue. Sigh...)
Rabbit hole #2 - Have a mouthpiece made with the 17B4 underpart and the Hooten rim. (There are a couple of ways to do this - probably about $200.) If it is a comfort only issue, then this might be a solution.
Rabbit hole #3 - Try a standard Bach 1 1/4 C - quote from Skyfall - "sometimes the old ways are best". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
abontrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1783
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is my experience based on my teeth, etc.
Tom Hooten rim is really close to the Bach Symphonic 1.25 line. Obviously, you still end up with the 24 backbore which you are trying to avoid.
The Tom Hooten plays/feels pretty similar to Parke mouthpieces. 650-275-25 or 24 with a 24 backbore and an M for all your "big throat" needs. 650-275-26 or 27 with an M or smaller backbore for all your Bb needs. Go 278 if you want a little more cup depth. That's about $750+ all in for that and about a year wait lol.
You could sacrifice and go for a 25-24 on the Yamaha 17B4 (and toss the hooten). Otherwise you have to do the screw rim dance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ek1986
Regular Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2023
Posts: 16
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You have a Yamaha NY B flat. Which is a horn that has a very open venturi. Even though this horn might feel tight to some people, it is actually very open at the front.
You can visually compare the Yamaha NY venturi versus the Yamaha Chicago venturi and will notice that the Chicago is actually very tight of a venturi compared to the NY (Chicago looks tight compared to the NY but in reality it is a very conventional size of venturi, just like the Xeno). A very open venturi creates less turbulence at the front and makes the targets feel "bigger".
I mention this because since Tom Hooten plays mostly on the Yamaha Chicago horns, I wouldn't be surprised if his mouthpiece and especially its 24 backbore has been optimized to that Chicago blow/resistance/feel.
In my experience, the NY is a very open horn and I can see why a mouthpiece with a 24 or similar orchestral backbore might feel either inefficient or too hard to handle on the NY B-flat.
The possible solution is a tall order: finding a mouthpiece that is similar to the Hooten except with a more standard 10ish backbore. I am sure either Parke or Toshi already make something that is close enough.
Good luck on the quest,
EK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
