The Bach 5C is supposed to be the middle ground between the two. It's got a narrow, rounded rim while still being arguably more forgiving than a 7C. Its alpha angle makes it feel smaller than it really is. Might be worth a try _________________ -E
College Kid
UMI Silver Flair | Fullerton Olds Studio
King Legend 2070
1921 Conn 80A
Trumpeter, Pianist, Drummer
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: 3C with Smaller rim?
teepy wrote:
... I am making the switch from a Bach 7c to a 3c, ...
-----------------------------
How long have you been using the 3C?
Several people on TH say that it can take several weeks to really get accustomed to a new mouthpiece, and unless there are major problems such as lip injury, you should just continue practicing to get the best sound and playing results with the new mpc.
Is there a problem with the rim size of the 7C?
I use a Bach 7 (no letter) that has a deeper cup than a 7C, the deeper cup 'should' give tone that is less bright than the C cup. I can play on a 7C, but prefer the tone with a 7. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 117 Location: East Aurora, NY
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: 3C with Smaller rim?
You might try Steve Dillard at the Horn Trader - he makes a mouthpiece that to me feels smaller than a 3C but it’s based on Arturo’s old 3C. HT3C - I think he offers a few different configurations.
teepy wrote:
Hey everyone!
I am making the switch from a Bach 7c to a 3c, but I do not like the rim size on the Bach 3c, as it is too big. Is there a 3C with a smaller rim?
_________________ *******************************
1952 Martin Committee #2
1941 Martin Handcraft Committee #2
1964 The Martin Committee Deluxe L
1937 Martin Imperial Handcraft
2019 Bach Stradivarius 72 MLV
1937 King Master Cornet
*******************************
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: 3C with Smaller rim?
teepy wrote:
Hey everyone!
I am making the switch from a Bach 7c to a 3c, but I do not like the rim size on the Bach 3c, as it is too big. Is there a 3C with a smaller rim?
The Bach 7C is a bigger mouthpiece than the Bach 3C. The only one that is close is the 3C Artisan.
3C in white, 7C in green.
The rim geometry will determine how it feels on the chops. The 7C might feel smaller due to the narrower rim and the bite and high point being closer together.
To address your problem you need to consider the problem at hand and approach logically.
You might prefer the narrower rim and profile of the 7C and the 3C cup - which is understandable, the 7C is a massive toilet bowl of a cup for a C cup, and the 3C is the shallowest of the C cups. It will play easier. Therefore create yourself a 3C with a 7C rim, would take minutes in VennCAD. If you are in Europe I can print you a resin prototype to try at small outlay. In USA contact Vennture directly.
You might want a narrower 3C - despite it being narrower than a 7C already, you might be getting along with that geometry and just want it to be smaller ID - this is the boat I am in, so I play on gear I designed to address this issue.
Here are 3 Bach 3C's against one another:
Again to reiterate - the 7C could easily be called a B cup and a much larger ID number, but the Bach numbering system doesn't exactly tally. How they derive the ID I have no idea. Nothing I have seen measured matches the catalog.
I sketched a 3C with a 7C rim below. You can see the remarkably smaller volume the 3C has, even when scaled wider to match the ID of the 7C rim and blend correctly.
If you want the .mpc file just DM, you can have it.
Here is a great video on the subject by a friend: Rich Colquhoun
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 1:55 pm Post subject:
The Bob Reeves C cup is based on the 3C cup, I think. So the 41C might be a good place to start.
Also, the Curry "600 series" 50C and 60C both use his 3C cup, shrunk down to fit those diameters. I think. It's either the 50C and 60C, or the 60C and 70C. I think it's the 50C and 60C. 50C will feel about like your 7C, in terms of cup diameter. 60C will be a bit bigger than a 7C. _________________ Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: 3C with Smaller rim?
teepy wrote:
Hey everyone!
I am making the switch from a Bach 7c to a 3c, but I do not like the rim size on the Bach 3c, as it is too big. Is there a 3C with a smaller rim?
For me, the Bach 1.5C, 3C, 6C, and 10.5C rims all have a very similar feel. It might be worth trying the 6C or 10.5C, if you want something with a similar rim to the 3C but with a smaller rim diameter.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Thanks so much everyone for the feedback it is much appreciated!! I'm going to try and do the mouthpiece express with some of these mouthpieces & experiment with the 3c cup with 7c rim.
You can also try a 7D and save yourself the money on custom work. Be advised that the 7 family has a smaller diameter than the 3 family. I know one poster says the contrary basing what he says on a diagram, but even he says that it will feel smaller, so if it quacks like a duck...If you want a smaller diameter you can just try a 5C or a 6C. Or the Yamaha versions. If you can find a brand and size that is ready made, than you should be all set, and will have the various sizes that each manufacturer makes within the same size. Yamaha also keeps their rims the same in each size whereas Bach doesn't.
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: 3C with Smaller rim?
teepy wrote:
Hey everyone!
I am making the switch from a Bach 7c to a 3c, but I do not like the rim size on the Bach 3c, as it is too big. Is there a 3C with a smaller rim?
Hi teepy
Can I just clarify something. I know that it has asked before, but I'm not sure whether we have yet fully clarified it.
Are you talking about the inner diameter of the Bach 3C. If so, the Bach 7C, 5C and 3C all have very similar inner diameters, but differ in terms of rim and cup shape.
The Bach 7C has a rim that falls away to the outside, making it feel narrower.
Are you saying that you want a smaller inner diameter or a narrower rim/rim that falls away to the outside more?
Or to put it another way, are you looking to put a Bach 7C rim on a Bach 3C cup, or are you looking for basically a Bach 3C that just feels a little smaller in terms of inner diameter?
If the latter, as has already been said, Yamaha have more consistent rims across their different diameters, and a standard rim that is on the lines of a Bach 3C rim but a little more rounded.
A Yamaha 11B4, has a cup shape like the Bach 3C, but a little smaller cup diameter:
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 942 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:50 am Post subject:
Hi, try the Yamaha Hagstrom, smaller rim, somewhere between a 5c and 7C, and has an about a 2B or 1B cup. I went to this from a Curry 3BC, I get a nice sound and a little bit more endurance and range than the Curry. And, this mouthpiece is inexpensive compared to some of the others you are looking at.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet
The Hagstrom is actually a 7C diameter. It feels notably smaller than a 6C. But the Hagstrom is bigger in cup depth, throat size and backbore.
My vote for a smaller 3C would be the Yamaha 13B4. The Bach 3C has the shallowest C cup in the Bach line. If you stick with Bach and go smaller, then the 5C and 6C will have a deeper cup. You could try a 7D, since the 7C has a really deep cup. If the 7 diameter is too small, the 13B4 might be a good fit, since it has the same diameter of the Bach 6C, but the Yamaha B cup might be a bit shallower like a 3C.
Last edited by Irving on Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:34 am; edited 2 times in total
FYI as of a few weeks ago, you can now use the comparator's "Share/Save" buttons to auto-create TrumpetHerald and Reddit links that include the mouthpiece names as well as the exact displayed A/B alignment of your choice.
FYI as of a few weeks ago, you can now use the comparator's "Share/Save" buttons to auto-create TrumpetHerald and Reddit links that include the mouthpiece names as well as the exact displayed A/B alignment of your choice.
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