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TJTS
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Joined: 06 Jan 2023
Posts: 84
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Rhondo wrote: | I notice he has a description of it on his website under ‘Other products’.
http://charliesbrassworks.com/products_new.php
What exactly is a standard GR taper flugelhorn mouthpiece? Does that include Bach FL mouthpieces? |
A Bach would not be standard also known as Large Morse. That would be small Morse / Bach taper.
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| TJTS wrote: | | Rhondo wrote: | I notice he has a description of it on his website under ‘Other products’.
http://charliesbrassworks.com/products_new.php
What exactly is a standard GR taper flugelhorn mouthpiece? Does that include Bach FL mouthpieces? |
A Bach would not be standard also known as Large Morse. That would be small Morse / Bach taper. |
This is true, but Bach (small Morse) taper shanks also fit the Melk leadpipe. That's what I use in mine. They go in farther, but don't bottom out. Charlie himself recommended trying small Morse shanks in his leadpipe when I told him I was having some playing issues with large Morse shanks.
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Doug Elliott
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Joined: 10 Oct 2006
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Location: Silver Spring, MD
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a mouthpiece maker, but low brass only. It's been a long time since I paid any attenton to flugel shanks. I guess there are at least 3 different sizes?
Looks like I was wrong and I didn't remember what I did back then 30+ years ago. I made a new receiver and soldered it onto the original leadpipe, which IS tapered. Sorry about that. It is long and goes just barely into the valve knuckle if pushed all the way in. OD of the leadpipe is about .427
I don't use this horn but I've loaned it to a couple of trumpet players over the years. |
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Halflip
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Location: WI
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Doug Elliott wrote: | | I guess there are at least 3 different sizes? |
Yes!
| Doug Elliott wrote: | | Looks like I was wrong and I didn't remember what I did back then 30+ years ago. I made a new receiver and soldered it onto the original leadpipe, which IS tapered. Sorry about that. |
Thanks for sharing this; it was nice of you. I was wondering if maybe I was losing my marbles! 🤪
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Mike Prestage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 722
Location: Hereford, UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Rhondo wrote: | I notice he has a description of it on his website under ‘Other products’.
http://charliesbrassworks.com/products_new.php
What exactly is a standard GR taper flugelhorn mouthpiece? Does that include Bach FL mouthpieces? |
Yes, as this is presumably a reference to the taper that's standard within GR's product range (as opposed to the large Morse taper which is often known as 'standard' among players and other manufacturers.) GR's default flugel mouthpiece shank is small Morse, aka Bach, taper in terms of actual dimensions. However, they seem to consider it suitable for instruments with either small or large Morse taper leadpipes.
Mike
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Trumpetstud
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Joined: 17 Mar 2021
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| So how do I figure out what model my flugel is? |
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Voltrane
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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Location: Paris (France)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately it seems there is no Couesnon data or catalogue from that period available so difficult to know anything about the models at that time but basically there is the Monopole (top of the line) and the others. If it is a Monopole it should be engraved on the bell.
If you are interested in Couesnon, you can read this (long!) thread :
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=529797&sid=0cb90c5abbbe7330fbf9ae65ec73a9d6;
regards
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Trumpetstud
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| I did not realize Monopole was top of the like. Mine is definitely not a Monopole. So do u think guys like Tom Harrell are using Monopole? Thanks for the info. |
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TJTS
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:51 am Post subject: |
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The most widely used models are the 60’s horns with Big C pinky ring and the two piece bell with the big C in the engraving. As pictured here.
This is what most people associate with the Couesnon sound. Back in the day these were easy to get a hold of and cheap. Lots of good threads about this if you search.
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Rhondo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| TJTS wrote: | The most widely used models are the 60’s horns with Big C pinky ring and the two piece bell with the big C in the engraving. As pictured here.
This is what most people associate with the Couesnon sound. Back in the day these were easy to get a hold of and cheap. Lots of good threads about this if you search. |
Do they sound that much different than the Monopoles?
I think on YouTube there are at least as many Monopole samples as any of the others… Samples of Steve Dillard playing both. He can make just about any horn sound fantastic. |
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Uberopa
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| I have a Couesnon with both the original and GR pipes. I also ordered two WT Flip Oakes 3 Extreme mouthpieces. I tried both and found that Flip's observation that the instrument would be better in tune using the one with the French taper and the original pipe to be correct. However, I still have the GR pipe as it makes trying other mouthpieces easier. Most people seem to have the larger shanked ones. My observation only. |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2023
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Rhondo wrote: |
I think on YouTube there are at least as many Monopole samples as any of the others… Samples of Steve Dillard playing both. He can make just about any horn sound fantastic. |
I don't think so .... 
He, along with T. Austin seem to show-off their jazz chops and go for the BIG dbl-C.
The upper-register is NOT where Flugelhorns shine. Better to use a Trumpet.
I am MORE INTERESTED in how the Flugels sound in the middle and lower registers. I want to hear that sonorous, organic, "fluffy", mellow, breathey stuff ... played while holding some loooong notes, and legato passages.
Suggest demo'ing a Flugelhorn by playing a romantic ballad, for example. Or, think "Chet" ... NOT Maynard, or the "flavor of the month" hot-licks jazz cats.
[Disclainer: I have done business with both of the above individuals. Very good, satisfactory experiences. No personal attacks. I simply believe the attributes of Flugehorns can best be served by playing what I have suggested]
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Last edited by Man Of Constant Sorrow on Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rhondo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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He doesn’t just play high register on it. He plays ballad style smoky softly etc as well. I think Trent goes out of his way to do the same.
They are selling horns, after all. Why would they not want to demonstrate all facets and capabilities of the horn?  |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Think Chet. 
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TJTS
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:38 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Man Of Constant Sorrow"] | Rhondo wrote: | | TJTS wrote: |
I think on YouTube there are at least as many Monopole samples as any of the others… Samples of Steve Dillard playing both. He can make just about any horn sound fantastic. |
I don't think so ....
He, along with T. Austin seem to show-off their jazz chops and go for the BIG dbl-C.
The upper-register is NOT where Flugelhorns shine. Better to use a Trumpet.
I am MORE INTERESTED in how the Flugels sound in the middle and lower registers. I want to hear that sonorous, organic, "fluffy", mellow, breathey stuff ... played while holding some loooong notes, and legato passages.
Suggest demo'ing a Flugelhorn by playing a romantic ballad, for example. Or, think "Chet" ... NOT Maynard, or the "flavor of the month" hot-licks jazz cats.
[Disclainer: I have done business with both of the above individuals. Very good, satisfactory experiences. No personal attacks. I simply believe the attributes of Flugehorns can best be served by playing what I have suggested] |
Can you fix your post? You attributed the wrong post to me.
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:26 pm Post subject: I con |
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I think (?) I just did.
Sorry 'bout that. Please forgive me.
I've not been on the site very long, and I admit I am not yet adept at navigating some of the editing mechanisms.
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Rhondo wrote: | | He (Dillard) doesn’t just play high register on it. He plays ballad style smoky softly etc as well. I think Trent goes out of his way to do the same. |
Did I state Dillard just plays in the upper/high register?
NO.
Please read for comprehension and accuracy.
I do hope Dillard and Austin somehow get my comments passed-on to them. They might like a challenge. I suspect they are more than capable. They may even sell MORE Flugelhorns.
I personally can gather more about tonal subtleties by listening to Roy Hargrove and Sergei Nakariakov play the Flugelhorn.
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Rhondo
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | | Rhondo wrote: | | He (Dillard) doesn’t just play high register on it. He plays ballad style smoky softly etc as well. I think Trent goes out of his way to do the same. |
Did I state Dillard just plays in the upper/high register?
NO.
Please read for comprehension and accuracy. |
You implied it. 😂
Edit: Also, didn’t change the meaning here, but if you’re quoting someone please don’t add your own words inside the quote. |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 9:45 am Post subject: |
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"Please" do not tell me how to edit.
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone else perceive the insidious and dreaded Dunning-Kruger Effect?
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