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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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 Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:45 am Post subject: Which cornet and for what playing setting? |
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Hi
I'm primarily a British Brass Bander, have previously also played cornet in concert bands, and currently double cornet with trumpet in a community orchestra and symphony orchestra.
I own four cornets, a Yamaha Neo, a Yamaha Xeno, a Bach 184ML and a Boosey and Hawkes Imperial.
Personally, I feel that the two Yamahas (they are the same cornet, except that the Neo has a gold brass leadpipe, tuning slide crook and crook where the tuning enters the third slide, and taller main water key chimney. These are the only differences) are better British Brass Band cornets, the Bach 184ML is a better concert band/orchestral cornet, and the Boosey and Hawkes Imperial, being a brass band cornet of the past (smaller bore, sound and dynamic range) is my spare.
Despite what I think that each cornet is better for, I can't be doing with multiple set-ups, so play one cornet everywhere, currently the Bach 184ML, as I've just returned to a previous brass band, that have a matched set of Bach 184MLs. I don't think that the sound (more concentrated/more core) and articulations (more definite and more trumpet-like) of the Bach 184ML blend overly well in a section of Besson/Yamaha cornets, or that the sound (bigger and broader) or articulations (softer and less defined) of the Besson/Yamaha cornets blend overly well in a section of Bach 184MLs, hence the switch from the Yamaha cornets back to the Bach 184ML. Obviously this is all in my opinion.
Please do not lynch me lol for saying that the Bach 184ML articulates like a trumpet. Personally I feel that it does articulate on the same lines of a Bach trumpet. When I first switched to my Yamaha Xeno, I felt that my articulations were a little muddy, and I worked at making them sound cleaner and more defined. Back on the Bach 184ML last night, and there being only two of us on solo cornet, we were taking one repeat each, and I can't remember what we were playing, but it ended with a fanfare style rhythm (but not style) on a top G. Girl, you are hitting that out a bit was my opinion as I was playing it lol. Nice and clean and well articulated admittedly, but I don't think that the piece called lol for that sort of articulation.
This was my main reason for switching to the Yamaha Xeno cornet in Jan 2014. I was playing my Bach 184ML in a section of Besson and Yamaha cornets, and felt that my articulations were coming over like someone playing a trumpet in the section. Obviously it is all a matter of taste, and personally I felt that my articulations were very nice for a march, hence the reason no doubt for the popularity of the Bach 184ML in UK military bands, but they have got to blend with the rest of the section. Liking nice clean articulations, I worked on my articulations when I got my Yamaha Xeno cornet, and need to make sure that I don't get too carried away lol now I'm back on the Bach 184ML.
One of the advantages of the Bach 184ML is its versatility. Although it sounds cornet like enough for traditional cornet solos, when approached as a cornet, I've used it for jazz and even big band playing, where I can make it sound like a big, warm trumpet. It has a surprisingly big sound when pushed.
That's my cornets and where I play them.
What about you?
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Jabroni
Veteran Member
Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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For brass band
Besson Prestige hands down for brass band
Corey Band! Tom H!
Some people use Geneva (Black Dyke)
The only other brand that I love and would consider is an Adams.
There is a “pro brass band” where I
Live in Canada that uses Bach ML cornets. They do not sound like a brass band, and in fact sound like trumpets. |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 990
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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An Olds Super, mostly as backup horn when playing/marching outside. It has the projection and power of a trumpet, but is easier to hold. But admittedly, I play it like a trumpet so I'm not sure it really counts for the purposes of this thread.
I like cornets, but I struggle to find a purpose for one in my daily playing...it seems that since I don't play in a brassband, for just about anything I'd use it for, either my trumpet or my flugelhorn is a better fit. Which is a shame, because cornets are really cool...especially vintage ones. So many designs and ideas that have been tried through the decades.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Subtropical and Subpar
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 627
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Just a Conn Connstellation 38A, which is a giant tank of a thing. Nickel plated, which seems a heck of a lot thicker than silver plate, those heavy, heavy Conn valves (I'd say 50% heavier than the valves in my Bach Strad trumpet), and that infamous .485 bore. It has a dark, sonorous timbre, although not in the way that a British Brass band cornet is dark. I fear I lack the vocabulary necessary to really explicate this; people say words like "core" and "spin" and my eyes glaze over. Long story short, it's an American-style cornet but not, I think, one meant for trad jazz playing. With different mouthpieces it can sound relatively trumpet-ish or almost flugelhorn dark; depending on the purpose I bounce between a Bach 1C, Monette B11, Yamaha 16E, and Yamaha David King.
To be honest I am desirous of a second cornet even though I don't really have enough venues/uses to justify the one I own  There are a lot of King Silvertones on the market lately, some for decent prices, and I figure the tonal differences of a sterling silver belled-cornet might kinda sorta maybe make enough of a reason to own one. Plus it would make a matching set with my King Liberty trumpet. I am on the fence about it.
_________________
1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I bought the York in my signature years ago to play in a BBB. The band folded before I had a chance to try out. After that I played it in a community band.
For trad jazz I've played a Conn 80A, Conn 28A, Conn "The Wonder", a Cleveland Clevelander, an Olds Ambassador, a Conn 77A, a Conn 5A, a King Silvertone and a King Superior. I'm going to try the York for trad jazz too, as it has the best intonation of all of them.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| You mention custom 3C mouthpieces. Do they all have the standard 3C cups or is your cornet cup modified to be more "cornetish"? |
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Christian K. Peters
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 1532
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:02 pm Post subject: Which cornet |
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Hello all,
I play a Schilke XA1 for front row brass band and concert band cornet parts. Mouthpiece is a Warburton 4D or 5XD with a 5 backbore.
Schilke soprano Eb when I am subbing the sop part. Schilke 13B or Warburton 5M with am S5 backbore at the moment. Still trying to dial that in. Tried 6SV, but much too bright for soprano.
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Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Jabroni wrote: | For brass band
Besson Prestige hands down for brass band
Corey Band! Tom H!
Some people use Geneva (Black Dyke)
The only other brand that I love and would consider is an Adams.
There is a “pro brass band” where I
Live in Canada that uses Bach ML cornets. They do not sound like a brass band, and in fact sound like trumpets. |
Thanks very much, and very interesting. My brass band choice would be the Yamaha Xeno or Neo. The Geneva Oldroyd Cardinal is a nice cornet, I'm not so keen on the Symphony.
I wouldn't go quite as far as saying that the Bach 184ML sounds like a trumpet, as I double both in my community orchestra and symphony orchestra, and with an equivalent mouthpiece to what I use on trumpet, for consistency purposes, there is definitely a change in sound when I switch, but I feel that the Bach 184ML articulates like a trumpet, and rather than having a British Brass Band cornet sound, although not brighter overall, has a different sound profile to a typical brass band cornet, more concentrated with more core, which darkens in a flugel rather than brass band cornet direction with a deeper mouthpiece. Or to put it another way, I'd say that with an equivalent mouthpiece, my Bach 184ML sounds like a warmer, richer version of my Bach 37 trumpet, and as you use increasingly deeper mouthpieces, you just change the sound in a flugel direction, as if you were playing a trumpet with something like a Curry TF cup. I've heard that the 184L, especially with the gold brass bell is more brass band cornet like. I haven't personally played one. All that I know is that if you play a Bach 184ML in a section of Besson and Yamaha cornets, although no brighter, its sound profile and the way it articulates, makes it sound like you are playing a trumpet in a section of cornets. For that reason, like your Canadian pro band, for the Bach 184ML ot work well as a brass band cornet, the whole cornet section need to be on one, which is the case in my brass band.
It wouldn't be my brass band cornet choice, but hey ho, it works when you all play them, just don't expect it to sound like a Besson Sovereign, it doesn't.
Thanks very much again.
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | An Olds Super, mostly as backup horn when playing/marching outside. It has the projection and power of a trumpet, but is easier to hold. But admittedly, I play it like a trumpet so I'm not sure it really counts for the purposes of this thread.
Interesting, thanks.
I like cornets, but I struggle to find a purpose for one in my daily playing...it seems that since I don't play in a brassband, for just about anything I'd use it for, either my trumpet or my flugelhorn is a better fit. Which is a shame, because cornets are really cool...especially vintage ones. So many designs and ideas that have been tried through the decades.
Interesting, thanks, and I don't know what type of playing you do. In my community light orchestra, I would play cornet if the piece was marked cornet, but I often play cornet when the piece is marked trumpet, if I feel that the piece is better suited to a cornet. A example would be marches, and personally I feel that Guilbert and Sullivan should be played on cornet, or at least suits cornet better. We are currently playing Pirates of Penzance, and I'm switching to cornet. I feel that the solo section is better suited to cornet. Maybe it is personal preference, my brass band background etc.
In my symphony orchestra, sometimes there are both trumpet and cornet parts. Since the cornet had valves first, the cornet parts are often more substational, and less fanfare like in nature. There are only two of us, so normally we choose to play the cornet parts, and play them on cornet. At hte moment we are playing Delibes Sylvia on cornet.
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | Just a Conn Connstellation 38A, which is a giant tank of a thing. Nickel plated, which seems a heck of a lot thicker than silver plate, those heavy, heavy Conn valves (I'd say 50% heavier than the valves in my Bach Strad trumpet), and that infamous .485 bore. It has a dark, sonorous timbre, although not in the way that a British Brass band cornet is dark. I fear I lack the vocabulary necessary to really explicate this; people say words like "core" and "spin" and my eyes glaze over. Long story short, it's an American-style cornet but not, I think, one meant for trad jazz playing. With different mouthpieces it can sound relatively trumpet-ish or almost flugelhorn dark; depending on the purpose I bounce between a Bach 1C, Monette B11, Yamaha 16E, and Yamaha David King.
To be honest I am desirous of a second cornet even though I don't really have enough venues/uses to justify the one I own There are a lot of King Silvertones on the market lately, some for decent prices, and I figure the tonal differences of a sterling silver belled-cornet might kinda sorta maybe make enough of a reason to own one. Plus it would make a matching set with my King Liberty trumpet. I am on the fence about it. |
Sounds great, and I think I know what you mean when you describe how your cornet sounds. Personally I have no idea what the Conn Constellation 38A looks or sounds like.
Is the King Silvertone more of a jazz cornet?
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Cooper wrote: | | You mention custom 3C mouthpieces. Do they all have the standard 3C cups or is your cornet cup modified to be more "cornetish"? |
I mean custom in that it is not the standard B3C cup from the now discontinued for obvious reasons, Kanstul modular mouthpiece system. It is simply a copy of the cup end of my favourite trumpet Bach 3C, which has a slightly softer bite than typical for a Bach 3C, and a larger cup diameter. According to Mike Prestage of this forum, who measured it, it is as large as a Bach 1 1/2C and bigger than some Bach 1 1/2Cs.
I've never felt the need to have it modified to be more cornet-like. It sounds plenty brass band cornet-like on a Yamaha Xeno or Neo, if you use a British Brass Band cornet approach with a British Brass Band cornet sound in your head. I'm not going to lie and say that it sounds like a Denis Wick 4, as that would be a tall order, but it blends fine with say a Denis Wick 4B, and I play solo or principal cornet anyhow, and nobody I play alongside uses a Denis Wick no letter cup on the front row.
An additional reason why it is easier to make it sound cornet-like, is that although I do have modular tops in a Bach cornet blank, and also the James R New standard blank which is Bach trumpet blank like, I actually use the Kanstul Modular Mouthpiece style blank. This has more mass at the bottom of the cup, which is very obvious when you unscrew the backbore, and look at the width of the "ring" round where the backbore screws in. I've done quite a lot of experimentation, and have found that the sound darkens with more mass at the bottom of the cup. There is a pretty noticeable difference between a Yamaha Neo played with a Bach 3C with a standard Bach cornet blank, and my 3C top, which has a fair bit of mass at the bottom of the cup. My 3C sounds quite a lot bigger and warmer. I use it for orchestral trumpet playing also.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard III wrote: | I bought the York in my signature years ago to play in a BBB. The band folded before I had a chance to try out. After that I played it in a community band.
For trad jazz I've played a Conn 80A, Conn 28A, Conn "The Wonder", a Cleveland Clevelander, an Olds Ambassador, a Conn 77A, a Conn 5A, a King Silvertone and a King Superior. I'm going to try the York for trad jazz too, as it has the best intonation of all of them. |
All sound great, thanks. I've never played a York cornet.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 990
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | Interesting, thanks, and I don't know what type of playing you do. In my community light orchestra, I would play cornet if the piece was marked cornet, but I often play cornet when the piece is marked trumpet, if I feel that the piece is better suited to a cornet. A example would be marches, and personally I feel that Guilbert and Sullivan should be played on cornet, or at least suits cornet better. We are currently playing Pirates of Penzance, and I'm switching to cornet. I feel that the solo section is better suited to cornet. Maybe it is personal preference, my brass band background etc.
In my symphony orchestra, sometimes there are both trumpet and cornet parts. Since the cornet had valves first, the cornet parts are often more substational, and less fanfare like in nature. There are only two of us, so normally we choose to play the cornet parts, and play them on cornet. At hte moment we are playing Delibes Sylvia on cornet. |
You're definitely a more refined player than I am  . Currently I'm only playing regularly in a community wind orchestra, in a section with 4 other trumpet players who don't have cornets. Even if I were to switch for artistical reasons, it'd still be 4-to-1 . However, the music we play rarely calls for a cornet...it's mostly modern stuff and/or musical/movie stuff. Generally, if there's a cornet part, it's doubling the clarinets. If there is a quiter, more lyrical solo, I tend to play it on flugel instead. I suppose I should get a more 'proper cornet' if I were to use it for classical stuff though; there's little my Recording trumpet cannot equally well or better than the Super cornet. It's more suited for small jazz combo stuff too imho, and otherwise the flugel has a greater contrast to the trumpet, and I'm worried the distinction would generally be lost to the audience otherwise. I occasionally sub in a symphony orchestra but they ask me for trumpet there, never for cornet.
So basically I'd either have to join a brassband, or buy cornets for my section mates...and at any rate, I'd have to learn how to become a proper cornet player in the first place . That being said, I still really like cornets and I love reading about/hearing other people playing them, and there's a few cornets on my 'bucket-to-try'-list still.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Which cornet |
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| Christian K. Peters wrote: | Hello all,
I play a Schilke XA1 for front row brass band and concert band cornet parts. Mouthpiece is a Warburton 4D or 5XD with a 5 backbore.
Schilke soprano Eb when I am subbing the sop part. Schilke 13B or Warburton 5M with am S5 backbore at the moment. Still trying to dial that in. Tried 6SV, but much too bright for soprano. |
Very interesting, thanks. A friend of mine has recently bought a Schilke XA1.
Maybe I'm getting confused with another player on another make and model of cornet, but does your Warburton go in your Schilke cornet a long way. I have a feeling that my colleague found that his Warburton cornet mouthpiece went in almost up to the cup. Like I said, maybe I'm getting confused.
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | Interesting, thanks, and I don't know what type of playing you do. In my community light orchestra, I would play cornet if the piece was marked cornet, but I often play cornet when the piece is marked trumpet, if I feel that the piece is better suited to a cornet. A example would be marches, and personally I feel that Guilbert and Sullivan should be played on cornet, or at least suits cornet better. We are currently playing Pirates of Penzance, and I'm switching to cornet. I feel that the solo section is better suited to cornet. Maybe it is personal preference, my brass band background etc.
In my symphony orchestra, sometimes there are both trumpet and cornet parts. Since the cornet had valves first, the cornet parts are often more substational, and less fanfare like in nature. There are only two of us, so normally we choose to play the cornet parts, and play them on cornet. At hte moment we are playing Delibes Sylvia on cornet. |
You're definitely a more refined player than I am .
Probably not lol.
Currently I'm only playing regularly in a community wind orchestra, in a section with 4 other trumpet players who don't have cornets. Even if I were to switch for artistical reasons, it'd still be 4-to-1 .
I fully understand.
However, the music we play rarely calls for a cornet...it's mostly modern stuff and/or musical/movie stuff.
My community light orchestra is probably a little more old fashioned, but we do do a fair number of musical selection. This are however usually more traditional musicals, rather than modern movie themes.
Generally, if there's a cornet part, it's doubling the clarinets.
I imagine that a community wind orchestra is the same as what we call a concert band. I used to play in a concert band before I relocated. I now play in a 65 piece community orchestra, with a full string section. There are three of us on trumpet. We've all got cornets as well as trumpets, but the other two trumpets don't always carry their cornets.
Since I'm on 1st lol, when the music is not designated cornet, it is usually my choice to play it on cornet, but I don't insist that they follow me in this regard. Normally I play it on cornet one week, then their cornets lol appear the following week.
If there is a quiter, more lyrical solo, I tend to play it on flugel instead.
I never take my flugel to orchestras, unless I know that I have a flugel part to play. I'd definitely use cornet for quieter, more lyrical solos.
I suppose I should get a more 'proper cornet' if I were to use it for classical stuff though; there's little my Recording trumpet cannot equally well or better than the Super cornet. It's more suited for small jazz combo stuff too imho, and otherwise the flugel has a greater contrast to the trumpet, and I'm worried the distinction would generally be lost to the audience otherwise.
I've never really worried whether the distinction could be lost to the audience. I have a small solo in the Pirates of Penzance overture To me it screams play me like a brass band cornet solo, so that is what I do, and on cornet. To me, having the cornet in my hand, gives me the sound and approach I'm looking for. The audience may not notice the change in sound, but I feel the change. I'm very much a feel it and play it from the heart kind of player, and if playing it on cornet puts me in the zone, and encourages me to put my heart and soul into it, hopefully that comes across to the audience. Maybe the change from trumpet to cornet won't come across, but the emotion will.
It is this solo 1.11 minutes in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXTkoXnLTSg
I'm looking on a small screen, but it sounds like it is being played on trumpet, and it sounds fine on trumpet (it is probably my brass band roots screaming cornet to me). This player is playing it a little bit more strident in places, which suits it, but as a brass bander I'm playing it more legato and rubato. I believe in milking things lol.
I occasionally sub in a symphony orchestra but they ask me for trumpet there, never for cornet.
I play in a symphony orchestra, and although I do primarily play trumpet (sometimes on everything for the entire term), occasionally, I need cornet when there are both trumpet and cornet parts, and I choose to play the cornet ones. Maybe I don't technically need a cornet. I honestly think that Delibes Syliva would sound equally good on either, but it says cornet on the top lol.
So basically I'd either have to join a brassband,
Why not, time willing?
or buy cornets for my section mates...
I bought my section mate a set of O rings for his 1st and 3rd trumpet slides. He has a habit of opening and banging in the 3rd slide when not playing. Bang, bang, bang he goes, when the conductor stops the orchestra. I bought myself a set for my Yamaha trumpet, and him, as the noise lol was getting to me.
Owing to a change in our symphony orchestra rehearsal schedule, my colleague didn't bring his cornet for Sylvia, and since I had my car outside rather than 400 yards away in the carpark like it normally is (I won't bore you with the reason why), I went out and got my spare cornet for him, my Boosey and Hawkes Imperial. This has unusual valves (well not for an Imperial lol) with springs that extend rather than compress, hung from a metal valve guide bar. When you take the valves out to oil, it looks like the springs are missing. I bought my Imperial from a repairer as one of the lower priced ones out of a set that he had bought in from a band that had disbanded. It is in great playing condition, and decent enough cosmetically, but not mint. For some reason, the metal valve guide bar clicks on the 1st valve. There is no obvious reason for it, it works fine and you cannot hear it whilst playing, but it clicks if you press the valves.
I lent it to him, and when the conductor was talking between sections, he was moving the valves up and down (this cornet has no tunable 1st or 3rd slide to move in and out, so he couldn't do his normal slide banging). Click, click, click he was going. I honestly don't think he realises that he is doing it (a nervous habit or something), but I lol was almost demented by the time we finished Sylvia. Thankfully he remembered his own cornet on Monday, and it has nothing that can click or bang.
and at any rate, I'd have to learn how to become a proper cornet player in the first place . That being said, I still really like cornets and I love reading about/hearing other people playing them, and there's a few cornets on my 'bucket-to-try'-list still.
I really think that you should definitely try some of the cornets on your try list. I'm however biased lol. It doesn't take much to get the cornet in my hand. I've always said that it takes something special in a trumpet to get the cornet out of my hand (my Xeno II is such a trumpet), and any opportunity I'm grabbing cornet, hence my my choice of cornet for Pirates of Penzance.
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | Andy Cooper wrote: | | You mention custom 3C mouthpieces. Do they all have the standard 3C cups or is your cornet cup modified to be more "cornetish"? |
...I've never felt the need to have it modified to be more cornet-like. |
I play on a slightly larger rim but shallower cup than a Bach C. On cornet I'm using the same cup but with a modified "2nd" cup or entrance to the throat.
This takes some of the sting out of an attack. If you wanted to check this out, the easiest way would be to try a Stork 2C or Stork 2B. (Standard Cup NOT Traditional Cup) The result is a sound that is not really darker but sweeter in articulations with out going to a deeper cup.
New could easily duplicate this or modify an existing mouthpiece.
Here is an example with a Bach 1 1/2C and a Stork.
https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/index.html?mpc1id=VA051509&mpc2id=VB000300&backcolor=blue |
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Dayton
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2045
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| I play a Getzen 800DLX cornet. I love the beautiful sound I get on this horn and its nimbleness and versatility. I use it in the various groups I play in whenever a cornet is the appropriate horn. |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 990
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | Normally I play it on cornet one week, then their cornets lol appear the following week. |
Hehe, nice!
| Louise Finch wrote: | | I never take my flugel to orchestras, unless I know that I have a flugel part to play. I'd definitely use cornet for quieter, more lyrical solos. |
I suppose you could argue that my flugel is somewhat cornettish, given that it has both a cornet wrap and a cornet receiver. Then again even at low volumes it projects like nobody’s business…I suppose a cornet would blend in more?
| Louise Finch wrote: | | To me, having the cornet in my hand, gives me the sound and approach I'm looking for. The audience may not notice the change in sound, but I feel the change. I'm very much a feel it and play it from the heart kind of player, and if playing it on cornet puts me in the zone, and encourages me to put my heart and soul into it, hopefully that comes across to the audience. Maybe the change from trumpet to cornet won't come across, but the emotion will. |
Can relate. My Olds Super cornet doesn’t give me that feel though (maybe it’s partly due to it’s name lol). My trumpet does though, as does my flugel.
| Louise Finch wrote: | | Why not (join a brassband), time willing? |
Time is not willing .
| Louise Finch wrote: | | I bought my section mate a set of O rings for his 1st and 3rd trumpet slides. |
I have a section mate like that too, except they move their valves. It’s funny because we’re playing a song where everyone has to move their valves/keys loudly for effect…except the trumpet section . They can’t really help themselves, but I agree it can be nerve wrecking at times.
| Louise Finch wrote: | | Take care and best wishes |
Likewise. Feel free to keep sharing cornet stories, I much enjoy reading them.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Brassnose
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2053
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:03 am Post subject: |
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I have essentially zero cornet experience, so very interested in adding some knowledge. The only cornet I owned was/is a 1966 Holton Collegiate in GREAT shape. I like the sound and valves but find the attacks a little harder than on my trumpets. Moreover, due to issues with my left hand, holding it is a bit of an issue and I have decided to sell it.
Currently testing (again) an Olds Studio cornet and quite like the sound. Unlike what I read on here and elsewhere that Studios are bright and whatnot, the one I have sounds quite dark and well rounded in between a trumpet and a flugel.
Due to the different wrap it’s easier to hold than than the Holton, but I am not sure yet if it’s a real keeper — will need more playtime. But I definitely like the two piece Studio bell and the engraving
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Tivolian
Regular Member
Joined: 22 May 2018
Posts: 84
Location: Upstate New York
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| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:00 am Post subject: |
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My story is that my parents bought me a lightly used Bach Mt Vernon 181 ML cornet in 1965, which was to replace the student cornet they were renting (this was a Conn student cornet of some kind). I played my Bach cornet through high school, using a Bach 3C mouthpiece, even though every other section member of my concert band, jazz band, and funk bands played trumpet. I honestly didn't even understand that it would make any difference.
Fast forward 44 years to 2016, with me starting a comeback with my one and only horn -- the Bach cornet -- in a New Orleans-style street (brass) band. It was only when I went to J Landress Brass in NYC in 2017 to try out my first trumpets that I realized that, yep, there was a big difference.
BTW, that day in 2017 I bought a 1955 Olds Super, which I really liked but later traded away. I love my Bach cornet but rarely play it and it never leaves the practice room. It has a truly lovely sound and extraordinary intonation, but one or another of my trumpets work best for big band, orchestra, and brass quintet.
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Tivolian |
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