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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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 Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | I am stunned finding myself agreeing with the originally quoted poster on anything, but the reality is that Facebook is the geriatric social media. Just look at what Mike Corrigan has achieved using it as the sole marketing channel for BAC (like running a fantastic opportunity to the brink of oblivion?) |
I am not sure that his failures are due to marketing. From my limited viewpoint he generated a lot of interest but failed to execute. Both in getting actual product available to responding to ongoing questions after the initial push. |
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2441
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | I am stunned finding myself agreeing with the originally quoted poster on anything, but the reality is that Facebook is the geriatric social media. Just look at what Mike Corrigan has achieved using it as the sole marketing channel for BAC (like running a fantastic opportunity to the brink of oblivion?) |
I am not sure that his failures are due to marketing. From my limited viewpoint he generated a lot of interest but failed to execute. Both in getting actual product available to responding to ongoing questions after the initial push. |
While Covid obviously put a dent in things, BAC had the tooling, updated floorspace, and talent to produce - and they built a number of horns. But if one looks to the "dealer network" at the website, etc., all that is there is Rent-My-Instrument's network of non-pro outlets. These are some solid horns designed by heavy hitters, but no-one is able to get their hands on them. Facebook video is not enough to get people to spend that kind of money.
If I want to check-out a Bach or a Yamaha, or a long list of boutique horns, there is a dealer network as well as other opportunities to evaluate. With BAC, there is nothing but mirror-images of Mike Corrigan hyping things up on Facebook.
The talent pool that was there is dwindling, and now that Covid is in the rear-view, there are still no distributors. Frankly, the best thing they could do now would be to sell as B-stock through "Quinn". With the fantastic service that Amanda there provides to assess horns, and an iron-clad return option, that could jump-start the viral reputation building that is essential to branding. Without it, BAC will not get past being a Facebook fable - worth about as much as "Designed by Michael T. Corrigan" printed on the bell of that euphonium that looks just like some other Chinese stencils.
It is very frustrating to see all that BAC could be, squandered by a short-sighted marketing strategy exclusively relying on the grandma social network.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Location: WI
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Sun Mar 17, 2024 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Croquethed
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Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 615
Location: Oakville, CT
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Facebook has a very useful feature called blocking. It could also be of great utility here. |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2023
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | I am stunned finding myself agreeing with the originally quoted poster on anything, but the reality is that Facebook is the geriatric social media. Just look at what Mike Corrigan has achieved using it as the sole marketing channel for BAC (like running a fantastic opportunity to the brink of oblivion?) |
I am not sure that his failures are due to marketing. From my limited viewpoint he generated a lot of interest but failed to execute. Both in getting actual product available to responding to ongoing questions after the initial push. |
While Covid obviously put a dent in things, BAC had the tooling, updated floorspace, and talent to produce - and they built a number of horns. But if one looks to the "dealer network" at the website, etc., all that is there is Rent-My-Instrument's network of non-pro outlets. These are some solid horns designed by heavy hitters, but no-one is able to get their hands on them. Facebook video is not enough to get people to spend that kind of money.
If I want to check-out a Bach or a Yamaha, or a long list of boutique horns, there is a dealer network as well as other opportunities to evaluate. With BAC, there is nothing but mirror-images of Mike Corrigan hyping things up on Facebook.
The talent pool that was there is dwindling, and now that Covid is in the rear-view, there are still no distributors. Frankly, the best thing they could do now would be to sell as B-stock through "Quinn". With the fantastic service that Amanda there provides to assess horns, and an iron-clad return option, that could jump-start the viral reputation building that is essential to branding. Without it, BAC will not get past being a Facebook fable - worth about as much as "Designed by Michael T. Corrigan" printed on the bell of that euphonium that looks just like some other Chinese stencils.
It is very frustrating to see all that BAC could be, squandered by a short-sighted marketing strategy exclusively relying on the grandma social network. |
Corrigan graduated from Red Wing Technical College, in Red Wing, Minnesota. A highly-regarded music instrument repair training institution, that was the "brain child" of Zigmant Kanstul.
As far as I know, Corrigan did not graduate from the Wharton School of Business; or, any other Business College or University.
I attended, but did not complete the course of study (due to medical issues) at Red Wing College.
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Halflip
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Location: WI
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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From what I have seen, ACB still periodically lists BAC instruments, and the BAC channel on EBay does as well - but that is not a distribution network by any realistic means. Neither has a significant footprint digitally. You have to be drawn-in by Trent's marketing to look to ACB, and the EBay listings are basically a pure chance encounter. BAC needs/deserves a real distribution network.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2023
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Is there some reason new (design, models, makes) horns are necessary ?
New horns are not always superior to the proven classics.
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Goby
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Joined: 11 Jun 2017
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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BAC and social media discussion probably warrants its own thread. You can't blame businesses for being where their customers are, and for the majority of instrument shops, their customers are retirement age with disposable income (aka average Facebook users). From what I've heard about BAC recently, there's not a lot of instruments coming out of their KC facility these days, and they've gotten away from some of their original ethos around American trumpet manufacture. Without knowing the inner workings and day-to-day operations, I'd guess there's a lack of output of the high end stuff and more of a focus on high-margin items like imported instruments and rentals. I think they were in some trouble with their DCI equipment brand, and the other projects (Benge, Martin, Calicchio, Kanstul, ACB collaborations, "pimp my horn", etc.) seem to have died on the vine. Regardless, I'm sure whatever is ailing BAC requires more than a TH post to sort out.
On the topic of Rat Rod, it's an interesting concept, and their page is pretty open about focusing on inexpensive vintage instruments. They're not charging an arm and a leg for their converted horns either, which is respectable in today's environment. I like the idea up recycling/upcycling old student instruments into new creations, and some of the wraps they do are pretty neat. |
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Goby
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Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | Is there some reason new (design, models, makes) horns are necessary ?
New horns are not always superior to the proven classics. |
Very true, but old horns don't last forever, musical tastes change, and manufacturing has always been a way to make money. |
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ConnArtist
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008
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Location: La-la Land (corner of 13th and 13th)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like these guys have fun, and possibly good work. This thread reminds me… does Garry Stoner still make his copper creations? I haven’t been able to find signs of him online or active here anymore.
I’ve got a donor horn and a want that’s right up his alley… wiling to consider other folks if they have a good reputation and a style that jibes with mine…
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"Stomvi" PhrankenPhlugel w/ Blessing copper bell
1958 Conn 18A cornet
1962 Conn 9A cornet (yes, the Unicorn  )
Reynolds Onyx cornet
c. 1955? Besson 10-10 trumpet
1939 Martin Imperial Handcraft “Model 37”
1986 Bach Strad 37 ML |
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Divitt Trumpets
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Joined: 11 Aug 2015
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Location: Toronto
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2023
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Divitt Trumpets wrote: | | Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | Is there some reason new (design, models, makes) horns are necessary ?
New horns are not always superior to the proven classics. |
No has made a perfect horn, so there is always room for improvement. |
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True.
But, at what cost?
Four-Hundred ($400) to One-thousand ($1000) American Dollars added to an existing design, for a barely noticeable 1%-2% improvement in playability or sound "improvement"  ?
"I pity the fool" - - frequently uttered by "Mr. T", a character in the 1980s
television series, "The A-Team".
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2023
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Divitt Trumpets wrote: | | Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | Is there some reason new (design, models, makes) horns are necessary ?
New horns are not always superior to the proven classics. |
No has made a perfect horn, so there is always room for improvement. |
_________________________________
True.
But, at what cost?
Four-Hundred ($400) to One-thousand ($1000) American Dollars added to an existing design, for a barely noticeable 1%-2% improvement in playability or sound "improvement" ?
"I pity the fool" - - frequently uttered by "Mr. T", a character in the 1980s
television series, "The A-Team".
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | | Four-Hundred ($400) to One-thousand ($1000) American Dollars added to an existing design, for a barely noticeable 1%-2% improvement in playability or sound "improvement" ? |
If you are a full-time professional musician whose livelihood depends upon winning an audition or defending your chair against a challenge, a 1%-2% improvement might be worth $1000 to you.
Different people in different circumstances operate under different value propositions.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Brassnose
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Joined: 07 Mar 2016
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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I am with Goby and ConnArtist. Looks like the fellas at Rat Rod have fun and looks like some other folks like what they do, too. Looks like a much better hobby/side gig than playing computer games or drinking beer day in day out 
Plus I enjoy the whole concept of taking something old, possibly in bad shape, and making some cool musical instruments from that. After all, my C falls in the Rat Rod category and works better for me than the Eterna C I had a while back.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Brassnose wrote: | | Looks like a much better hobby/side gig than playing computer games or drinking beer day in day out |
Surely not better than drinking German beer!
| Brassnose wrote: | | Plus I enjoy the whole concept of taking something old, possibly in bad shape, and making some cool musical instruments from that. |
+1
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2023
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: | | Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | | Four-Hundred ($400) to One-thousand ($1000) American Dollars added to an existing design, for a barely noticeable 1%-2% improvement in playability or sound "improvement" ? |
If you are a full-time professional musician whose livelihood depends upon winning an audition or defending your chair against a challenge, a 1%-2% improvement might be worth $1000 to you.
. |
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True.
HOWEVER (!) ... about (+/-) how many "full-time professions musicians", in this particular case, trumpet-players ... might you speculate, are you suggesting?
[*disclaimer -- I was one, years ago. NEVER again will I attempt to make a "decent living wage" as a full-time musician. AND, I was in the Union. Obviously, I was not "good enough", or I did not catch any "breaks". Made more money promoting events, doing "sound", etc.]
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Halflip
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Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | | HOWEVER (!) ... about (+/-) how many "full-time professions musicians", in this particular case, trumpet-players ... might you speculate, are you suggesting? |
I didn't have any number in mind. Why is that relevant? It's a reasonable hypothetical (that you agree is true).
My main point is more important: Different people in different circumstances operate under different value propositions. There have been too many heated arguments on TH arising from some people passing negative judgement on the choices of others simply because they don't share the same value proposition.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2023
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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@ Halflip
It is likely a very small number of trumpet players. VERY SMALL.
In-any-event; to each his own. We are fortunate in having many choices.
I prefer NOT to get into those "heated arguments", to which you refer.
The dreaded Dunning-Kruger effect seems to be ubiquitous.
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