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Did the mp feel like it "fit" when you were a beginner? |
Yes, felt right from day one |
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22% |
[ 4 ] |
It took a while but eventually it did |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
Didn't feel right at first and I still struggle with it |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
I don't remember, feels good now |
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33% |
[ 6 ] |
Took years for me to figure out how to make it feel right |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
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Total Votes : 18 |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:33 am Post subject: Did the mouthpiece feel "right" to you as a beginn |
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If you remember, how long did it take for the mp to feel like it really fit or belonged on your lips? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1783
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:30 am Post subject: |
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I have floated/posited the idea that before puberty, individual possess low somatic awareness. That, combined with inexperience on the instrument, results in "unawareness" for a very (relatively) long time.
Most young beginners don't seem to really "feel" the mouthpiece and they are very far away from "feeling a sense of belonging" of the mouthpiece. That is the "blessing" they are given (they don't have to think as much -- while adult beginners have the curse of somatic awareness); they just approach the instrument from a position of "play."
That being said, personally, I never thought about mouthpiece and the way it felt until undergrad. In middle/high school, I played middle of the road name brands (Yamaha and Bach). Now, depending on the year/month/week/day, the mouthpiece feels more at home versus other days. At an advanced level, it's obvious when a mouthpiece has the potential to work for you and when it will not. Often, "comfort" is a product of "good efficient playing" more than the specs of a mouthpiece. When I play poorly, my mouthpiece feels terrible and vice versa. |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1474 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:09 am Post subject: |
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On second thoughts, I honestly do not remember! Only thing I know is that when the Salvation Army no 1 seemed too narrow I consulted the local dealer who handed me a V B 1 1/4 C telling me this is a very good mouthpiece. (And it was a very good fit to my King)
That´s it. And I used it some 30 years, never reflecting how come. Trumpet and cornet versions.
During all these years I tested a lot of other mouthpieces none of which served me better.
So sheer luck or? Might add that no formal lessons up til I got 72, the first year aside, 1957.
Growing old thus always looking for things making playing more easy I have switched to Schilke, same width (14), different letters etc etc. Nicer rim.
However, the other day I got an opportunity to play an old V B 1 1/4C again. It worked just fine......
Making me wonder how come I switched???
Take away??? You tell me! _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I have never paid any attention to how it feels. My focus is on how it sounds. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:55 am Post subject: |
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ACB TA1 felt right immediately. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1783
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | I have never paid any attention to how it feels. My focus is on how it sounds. |
Let's dig into this. Do you mean to say you have played the same set of mouthpieces for your entire professional career? Do you mean to say that you would play a 1C and a 10.5B in the same gig if it provided the sound you needed? |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1833 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Conn 4 cornet mouthpiece. It was terrible in 1957. My opinion has not changed.
I now use a Neill Sanders 17M. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:31 am Post subject: |
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abontrumpet wrote: | Billy B wrote: | I have never paid any attention to how it feels. My focus is on how it sounds. |
Let's dig into this. ... |
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At first glance I thought Billy's response odd ...
BUT, it really does get down to 'how it sounds' -
That criteria likely INCLUDES the sound throughout a long session, multiple hard days, range, etc. And that means that the physiology of 'how it fits and feels' HAS TO WORK in order to successfully allow the desired sound to be produced. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Rhondo Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 216 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:31 am Post subject: |
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I didn’t pick up a trumpet (or any other wind instrument) until age 40.
I didn’t really think about the mouthpiece; it was just part of this thing called a trumpet that I was trying to make a sound on that didn’t sound sour.
As I progressed to make a good sound I still never thought about it. The only thing I thought about was if that ‘thing’ was difficult to play on a given day or if it was going well.
My trumpet did come with 2 different mouthpieces, and whether it was obvious to me right away or I was advised to use the Bach Corp. 5C instead of the Schilke 14a4a, I set the Schilke aside and played the 5C- never considering any other choice. |
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JWG Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 258
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Mouthpieces have to fit you, not vice-versa.
If you try to fit your mouthpiece . . . arguably, you fall under Einstein's alleged definition of an idiot . . . a person who tries the same experiment over and over again and expects a different result.
You need to choose a rim diameter, width, contour, and alpha angle that works with your unique physiology. The size, thickness, and shape of your lips, your upper and lower jaw alignment/protrusion, and the size and alignment of your teeth will dictate the right mouthpiece. _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 990 Location: Europe
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:10 am Post subject: |
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It’s too long ago to remember for me. I do know I wanted to play timpani at the time, not trumpet. I’m still not sure whether the/a mouthpiece feels right if I’m honest. I’m not a natural, never was.
Billy B wrote: | I have never paid any attention to how it feels. My focus is on how it sounds. |
Even as a beginner?
JWG wrote: | Mouthpieces have to fit you, not vice-versa. |
I don’t think the question was whether a player can tell a mouthpiece is right for them, but more like ‘when did you realize you were meant to be a trumpet player?’. At least that’s how I read it. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1783
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: |
At first glance I thought Billy's response odd ...
And that means that the physiology of 'how it fits and feels' |
How it feels is explicitly not a consideration. You are letting your experience as a human being shade your interpretation (because it is an outlandish thing to say).
If one truly never once considered feeling, you could play a student horn vs pro horn because "feel" is never part of it. You wouldn't even need to try out a horn, try two different mouthpieces etc. Everything is obviously sound driven, but a human cannot pretend to not consider that something is uncomfortable, a bad horn is bad, etc., unless they have severe nerve or brain damage. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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abontrumpet wrote: | ... but a human cannot pretend to not consider that something is uncomfortable, a bad horn is bad, etc., ... |
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And perhaps for Billy, the recognition and consideration of uncomfortable, bad horn, etc. quickly makes him believe (from experience) that the sound will not be acceptable.
One way of thinking about it is that in most cases, the GOAL is to have 'good playing' (sound?), and not to have comfort, or to get enjoyment from how well an instrument mechanically works. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1783
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: | One way of thinking about it is that in most cases, the GOAL is to have 'good playing' (sound?), and not to have comfort, or to get enjoyment from how well an instrument mechanically works. |
I am very familiar with the Adam school and agree with the tenets of it (along with Chicago's Song and Wind etc.) but not in the way it is often presented. I understand what the GOAL is, but if you were "very uncomfortable" playing the trumpet, you wouldn't progress very far. It is essential you have some idea of "feeling" otherwise you will not progress.
You are giving a very generous interpretation of aspirational platitudes. I applaud you for it, but I am not asking YOU to interpret Billy B. I want to hear it from him. I want to see if he can explain it. |
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Rhondo Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 216 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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If it sounds good it feels good, no? |
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ellie New Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2024 Posts: 2 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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As an adult beginner (~6 months) I will say the mouthpiece still feels strange to me and my mouthpiece placement is inconsistent even now. Also I have not tried too many mouthpieces but I cannot feel too much of a difference in rim size, angles and other things that veterans talk about. It seems simply impossible for us beginners to evaluate a mouthpiece in any meaningful way with our extremely limited range, and general instability... with the exception of a Denis Wick 4B which, within 5min of trying, I knew I never wanted to touch ever again |
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CaptPat Regular Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2023 Posts: 43 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I was a beginner in 4th grade so my memory is a bit hazy. At the time one adapted to the mouthpiece provided by the manufacturer, there was no talk about different sizes, shapes, etc. It wasn't painful or even weird, and after a bit of coaching recognizable sounds issued. I didn't move on to a different mouthpiece until high school, a Bach of some version. I was convinced it improved my playing by quite a bit -- probably confirmation bias. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:52 am Post subject: |
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abontrumpet wrote: | ... but I am not asking YOU to interpret Billy B. I want to hear it from him. I want to see if he can explain it. |
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Yep, getting a more complete explanation from Billy would provide more info. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:02 am Post subject: |
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ellie wrote: | As an adult beginner (~6 months) I will say the mouthpiece still feels strange to me and my mouthpiece placement is inconsistent even now. ... |
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At beginner level the criteria for fit and feel can be more generous.
1) No lip pain or injury
2) Not so big that you feel that your lips are falling into the cup
3) Small enough so that your lips are supporting the rim
If inconsistent 'rim setting' continues, then consider if alignment and position of your teeth is the cause. Sometimes small changes in the contour of the rim can make a noticeable difference in how the rim fits you. e.g. rim 'roundness', location of 'high point', taper inward and outward, etc. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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patdublc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1050 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | I have never paid any attention to how it feels. My focus is on how it sounds. |
^^^^Exactly this. I have never cared how the mouthpiece felt on my face. _________________ Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models. |
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