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rhatheway
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Joined: 02 Apr 2024
Posts: 213
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 8:25 am Post subject: "Tuning" your mute |
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Having recently bought new cup and straight mutes (both Denis Wick), I read a comment that the way to "tune" them (i.e., file the corks down to the proper height) is to play a low G and low F#. When the horn plays those notes in tune, that's the proper height for the corks.
Did I understand that correctly?
And also, since I play both trumpet and cornet (which have different diameter bells) is there a recommendation for doing this so that I can use the same set of mutes on both horns, or do most people have a specific set of mutes for a specific horn (meaning I need to buy multiple mutes)?
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Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2667
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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As the flakiest player on the planet, each day there no way I can predict what horn I'll feel like playing. Band mates never know what is going to show up. Keep in mind we are only talking jazz here. Because of that, there is no tuning of mutes. Jam it in the horn and play. I've seen players adjust their tuning slide based on the mute. Good trick when you've got one beat to swap out a mute.
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Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: 1947 Cleveland Clevelander
1943 Conn 80A Cornet |
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dr_trumpet
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Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2536
Location: Cope, IN
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: "Tuning" your mute |
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| rhatheway wrote: | Having recently bought new cup and straight mutes (both Denis Wick), I read a comment that the way to "tune" them (i.e., file the corks down to the proper height) is to play a low G and low F#. When the horn plays those notes in tune, that's the proper height for the corks.
Did I understand that correctly?
And also, since I play both trumpet and cornet (which have different diameter bells) is there a recommendation for doing this so that I can use the same set of mutes on both horns, or do most people have a specific set of mutes for a specific horn (meaning I need to buy multiple mutes)? |
Unless you feel that there is a problem with the mutes you have, I wouldn't buy another. However, if you file the corks and make the mute fit one specific horn, and then find that it doesn't work on the second horn, that is when you have an issue.
For example, I play a large bore Bach 72 bell Bb, and a large bore Bach C trumpet with a 229 bell. Each horn has a vastly different bell throats and tapers. I have a set of mutes for each, and have placed a small sticker on the Bb set and another on the C set to differentiate. I too use Wick mutes, and getting (especially) a straight that works best with each trumpet is important. I have several Bach Bb trumpets with different bells (37, 43, 65), and have a different straight mutes that works best on each of them. I own a 72* ML Bb, and it likes a different straight mute from the above horn (a Tom Crown copper), while an ML72 Bb I own seems to sound best on a different brand of mute (in this case, a Jo-Ral stainless bottom mute).
Music style and preferred sound dictates any mute selection.Finding the right sound is the key. You have to also consider what blends in the section, how things sound with the group you play with, etc. A collection of great mutes is not a bad thing, and I often sell my horns with the mutes that I liked with them, especially if the mute works only with that specific horn in my collection.
I hope my comments and thoughts help.
Al
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Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Nathan.Sobieralski
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Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: "Tuning" your mute |
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Hi Albert, I agree completely. Have you seen my solution?
https://s-mute.com/pages/quick-cork-change-system
| dr_trumpet wrote: |
Unless you feel that there is a problem with the mutes you have, I wouldn't buy another. However, if you file the corks and make the mute fit one specific horn, and then find that it doesn't work on the second horn, that is when you have an issue.
For example, I play a large bore Bach 72 bell Bb, and a large bore Bach C trumpet with a 229 bell. Each horn has a vastly different bell throats and tapers. I have a set of mutes for each, and have placed a small sticker on the Bb set and another on the C set to differentiate. I too use Wick mutes, and getting (especially) a straight that works best with each trumpet is important. I have several Bach Bb trumpets with different bells (37, 43, 65), and have a different straight mutes that works best on each of them. I own a 72* ML Bb, and it likes a different straight mute from the above horn (a Tom Crown copper), while an ML72 Bb I own seems to sound best on a different brand of mute (in this case, a Jo-Ral stainless bottom mute).
Al |
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Dr. Nathan Sobieralski
www.s-mute.com
Principal Trumpet, Sequoia Symphony
Department of Music (Trumpet)
California State University, Fresno |
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rhatheway
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Joined: 02 Apr 2024
Posts: 213
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Al and Nathan, thanks very much for your inputs. Nathan, your cork system is very interesting, I've never seen something like that. Is there a recommended set of them and what's the cost? Since I just bought new mutes I don't want to go out and spend a ton more. 
Also, going back to my original question on tuning the mute. Is playing the lowest notes (G / F#) and ensuring intonation at those notes the proper way to fit/tune a mute to a horn?
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Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1861
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Refer to
https://s-mute.com/pages/research
A nice study and useful guide. I'm as interested in getting the muted horn to have the same intonation as the un-muted horn. Getting the lowest notes to speak is the place to start.
It seems that when the muted horn pitch equals the un-muted horn, the lowest notes speak well. I'm not at what point that happens. Some experimentation is required. |
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Dayton
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2072
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Nathan, your cork system is very interesting, I've never seen something like that. |
I have an S-Mute adjustable cup. Nathan's system works great on that. I also have a few "regular" mutes that Nathan converted. [Note that only mutes of certain circumferences can be converted.] The rail system works great on those mutes as well and gives me more variety with those mutes than I had before. I can use different thickness corks to change the sound concept of a mute on one horn, and also use different corks to make a single mute fit on multiple horns: 37 and 72 bells, 229 bell, cornet.... |
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Nathan.Sobieralski
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Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to experiment I recommend the adapter systems I offer. If you have some experience with epoxy these are a breeze to install. This is probably the cheapest way to get into the system.
https://s-mute.com/products/quick-change-cork-adapters-for-other-mutes
Incidentally, I have the gen 1 Salt Shaker mutes on clearance now for $19 each, which would expose you to the removable cork system and you would have a different interesting/useful mute to add to your collection:
https://s-mute.com/products/bargain-bin
| rhatheway wrote: | Al and Nathan, thanks very much for your inputs. Nathan, your cork system is very interesting, I've never seen something like that. Is there a recommended set of them and what's the cost? Since I just bought new mutes I don't want to go out and spend a ton more.
Also, going back to my original question on tuning the mute. Is playing the lowest notes (G / F#) and ensuring intonation at those notes the proper way to fit/tune a mute to a horn? |
_________________
Dr. Nathan Sobieralski
www.s-mute.com
Principal Trumpet, Sequoia Symphony
Department of Music (Trumpet)
California State University, Fresno |
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RandyTX
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Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5302
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I bought a restored classic mute from Roger Ingram a number of years back now, and in the packaging was a little sheet inserted, with directions to slowly, a little at a time, file the corks until it would play down to low F# and slot it easily and in tune, and that would be the point when it was adjusted correctly.
Been doing it that way ever since, on a lot more mutes than just the one I bought from him, and never looked back. Luckily, mute corks can be bought really cheap in bulk packs from any resonably well-stocked music supplier online, and takes maybe an afternoon to make all of your mutes play better.
The downside to learning this trick? I ended up with mulitple copies of the same style mute, kept in bags or cases for the horns they're matched with. Bell flare differences mean you can't really adjust one mute for a lot of different horns..
Upside? No more having to quickly move a tuning slide for insert/removal of a mute like I used to.
so.. I have a set of mutes adjusted for my brass band cornet, another set for my commercial horn setup, and yet another for orchestral work. But, who doesn't end up with a bunch of extra mutes lying around after a while? I just found a better way to use them than collecting dust on a shelf in the practice room.
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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