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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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 Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Getzen wrote: | | Also it was always my understanding that Crysteel valves were chrome plated not nickel. Could be wrong though. |
You could be right. I was partly basing my assumptions on an excerpt from 1959 Conn material quoted by the Conn Loyalist, namely:
"... made of high temper nickel silver and finished in exclusive Conn "Crysteel" [(q.v.)] ... tough, hard nickel plate for smoothness, speed and easy response."
However, that was a description of Conn's "Airfloat" slides (for trombones?), not their valves. It's possible that Conn's Crysteel terminology covered different materials for different components. When it comes to valves, they just say that the precision possible with new manufacturing techniques reduced the need for hand lapping and permitted the piston material to be made twice as hard as ordinary valves. Beyond that, materials and processes were treated more like trade secrets.
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Quoting Adam Getzen again
| Quote: | | In this case the nickel that gets plated onto our pistons is actually much harder and wear resistant than the nickel tubing underneath. The nickel plating we put on our pistons is very close to our chrome in terms of a Rockwell test. |
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=122063&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
So if Crysteel was high quality nickel plating, it would have been as hard as at least some steel.
I have an old Conn piston in front of me that I have used to "hone" Conn casings over the years. It shows a nice matte finish with no peeling that you would expect from abused chrome. I'm very sure it is nickel plate.
Conn made great horns for that time, did a lot of R&D, and were second to none in marketing. |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Cooper wrote: | | So if Crysteel was high quality nickel plating, it would have been as hard as at least some steel. |
I certainly agree that Conn's Crysteel pistons could be as hard as some steel; I just wanted to clarify that they are not actually (literally?  ) steel, as I have found that some people assume based on the marketing term "Crysteel".
| Andy Cooper wrote: | | I have an old Conn piston in front of me that I have used to "hone" Conn casings over the years. It shows a nice matte finish with no peeling that you would expect from abused chrome. I'm very sure it is nickel plate. |
Thanks for sharing this and confirming what my ongoing assumptions were.
| Andy Cooper wrote: | | Conn made great horns for that time, did a lot of R&D, and were second to none in marketing. |
Agreed! As I posted in another recent thread (https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164098&):
Looking over my collection, I seem to have acquired more Conns (9 at last count) than any other make. They range in vintage from the 30's through the mid 60's. Almost all of them are markedly superior players.
In its heyday, Conn was at the forefront of its industry in terms of scientific research and innovation, all in the service of producing the best quality, best playing instruments.
Although I am a bit bemused by Conn's penchant for coining terms as part of their marketing strategy, I was not trying to imply that the innovations represented by those terms were merely hype (in case anyone made that inference).
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | I don't want to derail the thread now it is back on topic, so I'll just say thank you to those who explained some of the colloquialisms of speech in the US, which I didn't understand... |
"We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language." The Canterville Ghost (1887), Oscar Wilde.
Think nothing of it - we need translation phrase books when we travel from state to state in the US. |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by LittleRusty on Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by LittleRusty on Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Quadstriker
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2021
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Me before opening this thread: "Oh three pages on pistons must be an interesting discussion going on!"
Me after opening this thread:  |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quadstriker wrote: | Me before opening this thread: "Oh three pages on pistons must be an interesting discussion going on!"
Me after opening this thread: |
Well, here's your chance to save the thread!
The OP was asking for a list of current brass manufacturers (besides Getzen/Edwards and Del Quadro) that use nickel plated valves (as opposed to other materials such as Monel or stainless steel).
Do you know of any?
As the Modern Knights of the Round Table say in their motto, "Adopt, Adapt, and Improve!"
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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RL
Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Hear, hear ! |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by LittleRusty on Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:00 am Post subject: |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Louise, thank you for graciously deleting your contributions to our discussion.
I have followed your example.
And thank you Halflip.
I offer apologies to Brett for his being drug into this too. I have only the highest respect for both Brett and Adam Getzen.
At the time of my post that triggered our discussion I was actually hoping that Brett might share his test where he pitted, pun intended, monel against nickel in an endurance test. (Back on topic)
Nickel vs. Monel: The Battle Rages On |
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