Big Band Lead Sound

[Richard III]

I took over directing a big band in my area. The lead guy plays a Bach 72 and uses a Bach 1C with a weighted ring on it. He comes from a classical music background. A common friend of ours tried to get him to switch to a Schilke 14a4a. Disaster. He hated it.

What are the options to really light up his sound. It tends to be sort of dull and lifeless. Certainly not what I'm looking for in a lead guy.

Now keep in mind, we have to sell him on the concept and it can't be too extreme. Thanks.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[falado]

Hi, if he plays a 1C, handles it well nd endurance is no problem, he might tray a Schilke 14B. I used that on lead years ago in the Navy when my legit mouthpiece was a 14. The 14 is about a 1 1/2C the 14B is shallower, but still has a comfortable rim. If a chart had extreme range to it I also had a 14A4. I was also playing on a large bore horn.
Dave
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FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet

[Richard III]

Thanks. I should add that when he steps on the gas, he can cut through and really be heard. But at anything less than that, he disappears.

I know part of the issue is the bell profile of the trumpet itself, but he won't change that.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[zaferis]

IMO first of all 14a4a is pretty generally a terrible mouthpiece.. and switching from a 1C. Blech and double Blech.

I'd think hed' be looking for something similar in diameter, a tick shallower, - naturally the backbore will also be different.
How about something from Curry's lineup - 1*(star) a medium depth mouthpiece with more of a commercial setup. If that's too drastic he also make a "C-S" cup upon request- just a tick shallower than a C cup - designed for the legit guys pops concert sound.
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Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Richard III]

[BRM2]

I would suggest a Curry 1(M). It is medium shallow cup that is probably closer to a a 3C cup depth. It can definitely sound brighter than the Bach 1C he is currently playing on but not feel drastically different in terms of his normal blow. I played it for years and always thought it leaned more to the commercial side but was OK on the legit side. I think the Curry 1 star is a good suggestions as well, but I think he might feel like it might be a little stuffier.

If he can handle a slightly stuffier/resistant feel the Curry 1Z. will definitely brighten up his sound. A Curry 70M will also drastically change his sound.

I played a Bach 1 for years and switching to an older Curry 1Z saved my life a day before a big band concert where I played most of the lead parts.
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BRM
Van Laar Chuck Findley(silver)
CarolBrass 5000L YST
Marcinkiewicz E13 C. FINDLEY
Lotus 2M (Bronze)
GR 67MS

[Andy Cooper]

Curry, Stork, and Pickett all have rims that might work for a 1C player.

The least expesive option is, as was suggested the Curry 1 M (ZM), maybe the 1 DE. I'm not sure how the player would like the backbore though.
The player can at least try them out from mouthpieceexpress.com

If the rim and cup seem possible, then I would suggest a two piece system with top and backbore. This would allow a more open backbore to be used.

If the player would consider a slightly smaller diameter, it's hard to beat the Marcinkiewicz 300 series of mouthpieces. About the diameter of a Bach 1 1/2 C but with 14 or 15 different depths to choose from. Comes with a wide open backbore. the 308 is a good place to start. Also available for trial.

BACH 1C vs. MARCINKIEWICZ 308 1.5C

[BRM2]

I like this idea. Going Curry means he retains the same rim feel. What about a slight rim size reduction too. I don't play mouthpieces that big. Would a change to a Curry 1.5M or 1.5* work?[/quote]

It really depends on the player. I never did well with rim changes even when playing lead. The guy playing lead in the group can let you know but with his classical background he is probably very comfortable with much bigger equipment.

Keeping the same or very similar rim will only force him to deal with one variable at a time while trying a new mouthpiece. It will be an easier adjustment for your lead player.
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BRM
Van Laar Chuck Findley(silver)
CarolBrass 5000L YST
Marcinkiewicz E13 C. FINDLEY
Lotus 2M (Bronze)
GR 67MS

[Richard III]

Excellent ideas. I play mouthieces in the 7 size. I've got the Curry M, DE and Star. It's interesting how much difference it makes in cup contours.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[adagiotrumpet]

I have used either a Bach 1C or variation of one for decades for my classical playing. I would never, however, conceive of using it for playing lead, something I do on a regular basis. For years I have used a Warburton 3S and 3ES with a variety of Warburton backbores. I am currently using a Warburton TJ backbore on a 3ES top. The Warburton doesn't really offer a great deal interms of increased range, but as far a sound is concerned, it makes all the difference. The sound is brilliant without being shrill and the projection is unreal right up to high G's and double A's.

I find there is no adjustment necessary to go back and forth between the Bach 1C and the Warburton 3 rim. The nice thing about Warburtons is that once a rim and cup profile is chosen, you have a variety of backbores to choose from to dial in the sound concept you are looking for.

[Brassnose]

Some of my favorites are Klier pieces - many options and very good prices. If you look at their exclusive series, there even is a big band and a lead series.

https://www.jk-klier.de/en-gb/mouthpieces/trumpet-flugelhorn--cornet

Been on a Klier Exclusive 5C flugel piece for a decade and never felt the need to change.
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Brassnose]

I’d agree on Warburton; even their D cup is fairly brilliant - the description on the Warburton page „ D - Deep "bowl" shape. This cup shape produces the fullest of symphonic sound. It is ideal for the cornet parts with its warm sound.“ is way off. The sound is focused and brilliant and could probably be what your lead player is looking for. My favorite is the MC cup. Combines the best of a deeper cup with the best of a shallower cup. Add an NY backbore and you’re ready for big band lead. Great rims, too.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Robert P]

How about a Yamaha Allen Vizzutti? A less extreme cousin to the Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead but definitely still in the lead mouthpiece category.
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel

[TIJO]

Have him look into having Bob Reeves put a 1c rim on their M or S cup.
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Van Laar B1
Yamaha 6310z Flugel
Greg Black mouthpieces

[Richard III]

Okay, this guy is cheap. No Warburtons, no custom this or that and the Yamaha is way too small.

I had a talk with him today and brought up why he is using the extra weight on his mouthpiece. He told me he had no idea and wouldn't talk about making any changes.

Let's let this go for now. Thanks.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Twin$dad]

Although a mouthpiece change would probably help as everyone agrees. My problem is I was always taught to play under the lead. While I try to stick with the dynamics on the page playing lead, my guys play over me constantly. If I put the pedal to the metal in the upper register all is good and they can’t over play me. But when we get to normal playing with lower dynamics I get lost in the shuffle as well since they do not follow. Perhaps there could be happy medium within the section and/or band. There may be two sides to this story. And yes I tell them over and over play under the lead. Just sayin.
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William

Callet Jazz
Schilke X3
Benge LA 3x

[silverhorn]

Reeves 43M or 43S. 43ES is the shallowest cup but may or may not be too extreme for him?

[Souperman]

Ok, if this guy is cheap and wants to try a cheap experiment, I think a Yamaha 15B4 could do the trick for him. It’s basically a slightly shallower 2C size with a comfortable rim - and is very inexpensive from mouthpieceexpress.com
And he could return it for a refund, if it doesn’t work out for him.
Just a thought.

[Brassnose]

Honestly, I don’t think the weight ring is the problem, the 1C is. After all, a lot of folks us heavy mouthpieces and can be heard just fine. But a 1C on lead, heavy or not - that’s hard (or would for me, at least).

If he’s not willing to talk, however, you have quite limited options. Good luck with it The idea to talk to the section is also, good, as just suggested above.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Trumpjerele]

No one should play louder than the leader. His colleagues may be making a mistake.

A trumpet player capable of playing first trumpet in a Big Band with a Bach 1c mouthpiece must have very solid skills.

But if he comes from a classical background, perhaps it would help to listen to Big Band music, to form the sound concept. You can't go wrong with Duke Ellington or Count Basie.

Maybe he will discover that he can't reach that kind of sound with his 1c, and he will start his safari.

Maybe he'll have the mentality: it's not the arch, it's the archer. And he should change it to: the right tool for the job.

Just a thought.
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Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies

Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4

Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge