| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
|
 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:12 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Just had a thought today. All of our music is in a file on Google. I can access all of the first trumpet parts. Time to start working them up for me to play and give my friend a little challenge. 
This band has a custom for the director to play 4th trumpet. That way at all the rehearsals, the directer doesn't really need to play and can concentrate on everything going on. Has anyone here done both directing and playing lead?
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
hose
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 1854
Location: Winter Garden, FL
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard III wrote: | Just had a thought today. All of our music is in a file on Google. I can access all of the first trumpet parts. Time to start working them up for me to play and give my friend a little challenge.
This band has a custom for the director to play 4th trumpet. That way at all the rehearsals, the directer doesn't really need to play and can concentrate on everything going on. Has anyone here done both directing and playing lead? |
Over the years I've watched a couple of "would be" directors fail miserably at trying to do lead trpt and be musical director. Usually the lead guy wants no part of the directing job. Too much of a demotion.
_________________
Dave Wisner
Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9033
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard III wrote: |
This band has a custom for the director to play 4th trumpet. That way at all the rehearsals, the director doesn't really need to play and can concentrate on everything going on. |
Pete Barbutti - the Fourth trumpet player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnsEZ9q2hOc
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 9:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kehaulani wrote: | | Richard III wrote: |
This band has a custom for the director to play 4th trumpet. That way at all the rehearsals, the director doesn't really need to play and can concentrate on everything going on. |
Pete Barbutti - the Fourth trumpet player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnsEZ9q2hOc |
Great routine.
We just had a gig, my first time playing 4th trumpet. It was a ton of nothing and then double the lead and then back to a whole lot of nothing.
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9033
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would think twice about calling harmony parts "nothing". A Lead Trumpet player doth not a big band make. 
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CheapHornGuy
New Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2023
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I played 4th in college. Loved it. One song even had a solo written for the 4th trumpet. It was my lone moment to outshine the lead guy, who never spoke a single word to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert P
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hose wrote: | | Richard III wrote: | Just had a thought today. All of our music is in a file on Google. I can access all of the first trumpet parts. Time to start working them up for me to play and give my friend a little challenge.
This band has a custom for the director to play 4th trumpet. That way at all the rehearsals, the directer doesn't really need to play and can concentrate on everything going on. Has anyone here done both directing and playing lead? |
Over the years I've watched a couple of "would be" directors fail miserably at trying to do lead trpt and be musical director. Usually the lead guy wants no part of the directing job. Too much of a demotion. |
My first thought when I saw this is you need to be a really strong player such that the lead part is 2nd nature to you. Bill Chase could pull off being the primary lead player, primary soloist and leader but he was Bill Chase. And he had a really strong group of players.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9033
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CheapHornGuy wrote: | | I played 4th in college. Loved it. One song even had a solo written for the 4th trumpet. It was my lone moment to outshine the lead guy, who never spoke a single word to me. |
When I was coming up, the standard Jazz chair was 4th not the 2nd, like most bands do today.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hose
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 1854
Location: Winter Garden, FL
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I read this on TH once. I don't know who wrote it originally: If you walk into a large ballroom where a big band is playing and your first impression is, "Wow, what a great lead trpt". Then what you're hearing is not necessarily good lead trpt playing. Lead trpt is not about over powering the ensemble unless it's a solo. Or, if your first impression is, "Wow listen to that trpt section". Then it is still not a great band. The rule of a great ensemble is not a show case for any one section or player, (unless it's part of the arrangement). Ensemble balance should be attained from an audience perspective as opposed to the lead trpt chair. And the last point was- playing effective lead is not necessarily playing louder than everyone else.
_________________
Dave Wisner
Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hose wrote: | | I read this on TH once. I don't know who wrote it originally: If you walk into a large ballroom where a big band is playing and your first impression is, "Wow, what a great lead trpt". Then what you're hearing is not necessarily good lead trpt playing. Lead trpt is not about over powering the ensemble unless it's a solo. Or, if your first impression is, "Wow listen to that trpt section". Then it is still not a great band. The rule of a great ensemble is not a show case for any one section or player, (unless it's part of the arrangement). Ensemble balance should be attained from an audience perspective as opposed to the lead trpt chair. And the last point was- playing effective lead is not necessarily playing louder than everyone else. |
I get what you are saying and it is a very fine line to be just enough and not too much. I liken it to hearing a chord. I want to hear the whole chord, each note balanced and lending its own special nuance to the chord. Lacking that note, something seems wrong. Too often that is what happens with ensembles.
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert P
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hose wrote: | | I read this on TH once. I don't know who wrote it originally: If you walk into a large ballroom where a big band is playing and your first impression is, "Wow, what a great lead trpt". Then what you're hearing is not necessarily good lead trpt playing. Lead trpt is not about over powering the ensemble unless it's a solo. Or, if your first impression is, "Wow listen to that trpt section". Then it is still not a great band. The rule of a great ensemble is not a show case for any one section or player, (unless it's part of the arrangement). Ensemble balance should be attained from an audience perspective as opposed to the lead trpt chair. And the last point was- playing effective lead is not necessarily playing louder than everyone else. |
Way too overgeneralized a statement - there are times the lead trumpet or trumpet section is supposed to be front and center.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LadFree
Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2022
Posts: 57
Location: NY
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In all the bands Ive played with, toured with,sat in a broadway pit with, recorded with, this is the way it always goes; The lead player has the last word on volume, length of notes, cut offs,where to lay back, etc. The sections job is to match exactly what the lead player does with those things..sure, where theres a conductor, they can suggest things, like (usually) not so loud here,etc.
When im playing lead, I like the section to match me volume wise..a nice feeling of support. There are guys in NYC that are fantastic at section playing,and a lead player will suggest them for the gig to be..I played a lot with
one of the world class lead players,and it got to where I realized where he might be a shade low in the pitch on a certain note, I would match that on my note too,and he requested me many times for some great gigs,for many years.
So the pecking order is,lead player hired,and they should be trusted to do these things. If its not up to the conductors specifications, then they should just get another lead player..i`ve never heard of a 4th chair player telling the lead player what mouthpiece to play..And when everythings right, the only conversation might just be about that blond in the front row! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
A.N.A.Mendez
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5228
Location: ca.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:53 pm Post subject: MPs |
|
|
I love these mouthpiece dives, so interesting and the schadenfreude is palpable ........ 
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860
☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shaft
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 985
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 2:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
To the OP -
You may try to record the band and play it back for them. Maybe he will hear that he is not cutting through w/ brilliance. The set list can persuade him…. Call some taxing charts or rep sections and see if he sinks or swims.
Even if he swtched to a smaller cup or a concave/convex shape he may not react well (lips bottom out,,,, does not back off on air quantity etc.) or his embochure may take time to adjust.
Sometimes a personnel change is needed…… |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TJTS
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2023
Posts: 84
Location: Indianapolis, IN
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LadFree wrote: | In all the bands Ive played with, toured with,sat in a broadway pit with, recorded with, this is the way it always goes; The lead player has the last word on volume, length of notes, cut offs,where to lay back, etc. The sections job is to match exactly what the lead player does with those things..sure, where theres a conductor, they can suggest things, like (usually) not so loud here,etc.
When im playing lead, I like the section to match me volume wise..a nice feeling of support. There are guys in NYC that are fantastic at section playing,and a lead player will suggest them for the gig to be..I played a lot with
one of the world class lead players,and it got to where I realized where he might be a shade low in the pitch on a certain note, I would match that on my note too,and he requested me many times for some great gigs,for many years.
So the pecking order is,lead player hired,and they should be trusted to do these things. If its not up to the conductors specifications, then they should just get another lead player..i`ve never heard of a 4th chair player telling the lead player what mouthpiece to play..And when everythings right, the only conversation might just be about that blond in the front row! |
This
_________________
Michael | Owner
www.thejazztrumpetstore.com
Vintage Professional Trumpet Store |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Shaft wrote: | To the OP -
You may try to record the band and play it back for them. Maybe he will hear that he is not cutting through w/ brilliance. The set list can persuade him…. Call some taxing charts or rep sections and see if he sinks or swims.
Even if he swtched to a smaller cup or a concave/convex shape he may not react well (lips bottom out,,,, does not back off on air quantity etc.) or his embochure may take time to adjust.
Sometimes a personnel change is needed…… |
I will be recording the next practice this coming Monday. Nothing says reality like hearing it from the other side of the bell.
The band is also exploring more trumpet subs as we have two players reaching an age where performance is starting to detiorate, with the goal that the subs become regulars when possible.
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shaft
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 985
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sounds like it will all work out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
homebilly
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010
Posts: 2197
Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
make the call to the bull pen already
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| homebilly wrote: | | make the call to the bull pen already |
We are fresh out of pitchers.
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
homebilly
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010
Posts: 2197
Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
then that might be a problem for sure
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
