Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 4:51 am Post subject: What is the advantage of a heavy mass mouthpiece?
I've recently come back to playing my trumpet (less than one year) and joined a community band. I noticed that two people in the trumpet section are playing on what they called "heavy mass" muothpieces. When asked why, they just said they like the feel of them.
Looking online to try to find more information, I found statements about "ensuring the efficient transfer of energy" and things like that, but that doesn't really tell me from a player's perspective what the advantage is.
So..., can someone explain what the advantage of a heavy mass mouthpiece is over a regular design mouthpiece?
Thanks! _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
Personally, I don't like it cause I find less feedback.
But some people like them for other reasons. _________________ Bb: Schagerl James Morrison, Van Laar B7, XO 1600i
C: Bach Philadelphia
So..., can someone explain what the advantage of a heavy mass mouthpiece is over a regular design mouthpiece?
I wouldn't say that mouthpieces with more mass have advantages as much as they have features that might be desirable for some players.
You might find that a mouthpiece with more mass offers more defined slotting and a slightly warmer/darker tone. That's been my experience, anyway, though other changes to mouthpieces with more mass, such as bigger throats and/or backbores could account for some of those differences (and make true comparisons difficult).
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:56 am Post subject: Bach megatone or Denis Wick Heavytop
I have owed both megatone and Heavytop mouthpieces. Besides the visual effect, it is a personal preference. Did have a Megatone 5 B which paired well with my Getzen professional trumpet.
There are some good prices on ebay for both Bach megatone and Denis Wick Heavytop mouthpieces.
Quit played three years ago, I started back playing cornet last month. Bought new to me musical equipment. _________________ Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook cornet
King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 Shepherds crook cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Jupiter 9e short shank mouthpiece
Bach 5 B long shank cornet mouthpiece ŕ
Last edited by jondrowjf@gmail.com on Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:24 am; edited 2 times in total
I wouldn't say that mouthpieces with more mass have advantages as much as they have features that might be desirable for some players. You might find that a mouthpiece with more mass offers more defined slotting and a slightly warmer/darker tone. That's been my experience, anyway, though other changes to mouthpieces with more mass, such as bigger throats and/or backbores could account for some of those differences (and make true comparisons difficult).
Okay, that makes sense. Like everything else with playing trumpet, what works for one person may/may not work for me and the only way to find out is to experiment.
But..., since I'm still in the comeback stage, I don't need to add anything new to what I'm doing, so I'll wait a year or two on that and then maybe try one of those mouthpieces to see how it feels. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Bach megatone or Denis Wick Heavytop
jondrowjf@gmail.com wrote:
I have owed both megatone and Heavytop mouthpieces. Besides the visual effect, it is a personal preference. Did have a Megatone 5 B which paired well with my Gerzen professional trumpet.
The cost for a new mouthpiece is megatone is $150.00 for silverplated.
Okay, now you've added another new term, Heavytop mp. Is that maybe one of those mps that have a separate top and backbore, so you added a heavier rim or something like that? _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
Thanks for the link, I'll watch this video later this evening. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
So..., can someone explain what the advantage of a heavy mass mouthpiece is over a regular design mouthpiece?
You might find that a mouthpiece with more mass offers more defined slotting and a slightly warmer/darker tone. That's been my experience, anyway, though other changes to mouthpieces with more mass, such as bigger throats and/or backbores could account for some of those differences (and make true comparisons difficult).
Dayton, another question (and I apologize for being such a newbie in many ways, but playing trumpet and my knowledge of it has not kept up with all the changes that have taken place over the last 30+ years).
You mention "more defined slotting" which is another term I'm not familiar with. I assume that means being able to easily hit the note dead center and then being able to stay on the note and in tune without effort, or too much effort?
Thanks. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:22 am Post subject: Heavytop mouthpiece
Denis Wick heavytop is Wick version of the Bach megatone mouthpieces. One piece mouthpiece not a screw top.
If I still played trumpet would buy one of megatones mouthpieces.
Waiting a few months, before I buy another mouthpiece for my cornets. _________________ Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook cornet
King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 Shepherds crook cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Jupiter 9e short shank mouthpiece
Bach 5 B long shank cornet mouthpiece ŕ
Last edited by jondrowjf@gmail.com on Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total
You mention "more defined slotting" which is another term I'm not familiar with. I assume that means being able to easily hit the note dead center and then being able to stay on the note and in tune without effort, or too much effort?
Right. The more defined the slots are the easier it is to do those things. That seems like it would be desirable, and often is, but consider that the trade off is less agility and malleability of the sound. So you might have to work a bit less hard to get at the pitch centers, but then might have to work a bit harder on agility and coloring the sound. There are no "free lunches."
You need the tape since the bushings have sharp edges that will scratch your mouthpiece shank.
Adding weight to a regular brass mouthpiece, all other things remaining equal, can give a feel of more resistance. It may also change the sweet spot for some notes making it easier or harder to play in tune. Some experience better projection at the expense of less feedback.
Adding weight to an all plastic mouthpiece makes it feel more open.
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:08 am Post subject:
Dayton wrote:
Quote:
You mention "more defined slotting" which is another term I'm not familiar with. I assume that means being able to easily hit the note dead center and then being able to stay on the note and in tune without effort, or too much effort?
Right. The more defined the slots are the easier it is to do those things. That seems like it would be desirable, and often is, but consider that the trade off is less agility and malleability of the sound. So you might have to work a bit less hard to get at the pitch centers, but then might have to work a bit harder on agility and coloring the sound. There are no "free lunches."
Plus adding weight or bracing or in fact anything that reduces the ability of the horn to freely vibrate reduces the overtones. I don't like that effect and find that the resulting sound sounds dull to my ears. I use the term freely vibrate even though I'm not sure if that is what happens. I'm sure the are physicists here that can explain the effect. _________________ Richard
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:25 pm Post subject:
Dayton wrote:
Quote:
So..., can someone explain what the advantage of a heavy mass mouthpiece is over a regular design mouthpiece?
I wouldn't say that mouthpieces with more mass have advantages as much as they have features that might be desirable for some players.
Yep. Some people like the response and feel, others don't. As Sammy said "Ya gotta try" them out and discover for yourself. _________________ BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces.
I owned a Yamaha 14A4a in regular and heavy versions at one time. Preferred the regular weight by far. The heavytop was harder to get to speak and basically just made playing harder. Out front it seems it projected a little better, but as I projected just fine with the regular mouthpiece, there was no advantage (for me).
Same experience with the old Monette LT and STC blanks. The LT was fine, the STC was too much work.
Slots feel tighter on the heavier blank, too (identical mp, of course).
Everyone is different, so try if you like the feel of the heavier blank. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8336 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:27 pm Post subject:
Richard III wrote:
Dayton wrote:
Quote:
You mention "more defined slotting" which is another term I'm not familiar with. I assume that means being able to easily hit the note dead center and then being able to stay on the note and in tune without effort, or too much effort?
Right. The more defined the slots are the easier it is to do those things. That seems like it would be desirable, and often is, but consider that the trade off is less agility and malleability of the sound. So you might have to work a bit less hard to get at the pitch centers, but then might have to work a bit harder on agility and coloring the sound. There are no "free lunches."
Plus adding weight or bracing or in fact anything that reduces the ability of the horn to freely vibrate reduces the overtones. I don't like that effect and find that the resulting sound sounds dull to my ears. I use the term freely vibrate even though I'm not sure if that is what happens. I'm sure the are physicists here that can explain the effect.
This is my experience as well. Not really a fan, in general, though I think I have a megatone cornet piece that I've used on piccolo once that work pretty well.
But, I haven't like them in general. They especially put a cramp on my Benge. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Plus adding weight or bracing or in fact anything that reduces the ability of the horn to freely vibrate reduces the overtones. I don't like that effect and find that the resulting sound sounds dull to my ears. I use the term freely vibrate even though I'm not sure if that is what happens. I'm sure the are physicists here that can explain the effect.
Everyone being different, some of us benefit greatly from that same filter. But the effect of the inertia of increased cup wall mass is indeed what this is ultimately about.
As far as the physicist's take: Here's an engineering student's explanation of the subject (conveniently he covers mouthpieces first and then at 5:32 goes on to other parts of the system)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtTg9KHkaQM _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
You mention "more defined slotting" which is another term I'm not familiar with. I assume that means being able to easily hit the note dead center and then being able to stay on the note and in tune without effort, or too much effort?
Right. The more defined the slots are the easier it is to do those things. That seems like it would be desirable, and often is, but consider that the trade off is less agility and malleability of the sound. So you might have to work a bit less hard to get at the pitch centers, but then might have to work a bit harder on agility and coloring the sound. There are no "free lunches."
Agree, my daily driver is already hard slotting so adding a heavyweight mouthpiece makes it rediculously inflexible.
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 6:35 am Post subject:
Quote:
As far as the physicist's take: Here's an engineering student's explanation of the subject (conveniently he covers mouthpieces first and then at 5:32 goes on to other parts of the system)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtTg9KHkaQM
Very interesting. The part where more mass allows for more energy input without breaking up brought up a question. If the inverse holds true about a light weight system being easier to start the tone but easier for it to break up with more input, does a more open mouthpiece and trumpet offset this? So for instance, does the Claude Gordon personal mouthpiece with an open throat and a skeletonized cup area, paired with a Benge light weight but very open horn produce the best of all worlds? _________________ Richard
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
