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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
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 Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| chuck in ny wrote: | | if you can stretch the scheme higher, you can play the notes below easier. |
This has been quite a great thread with great advice given all around. Since all the relevant advice has been given, I'll want to touch on this concept a bit for those that visit in the future.
For a long time, I thought the statement above was going to be true (if you can play higher, you can play lower more easily). But ultimately, I found 2 things to be "more" true:
1. Like trickg and jkarnes0661 said: that making your low register a lower effort and more "solid" portion of your range.
2. Like onlyson and Jerry said: spending more time in that register.
So, (1.) it was actually becoming more proficient in the mid and mid-high register that allowed me to take the "form" of what I was doing and bring it to the higher register. Making things lower effort and sustainable was key for me to progress. Things like "can I hold out a top line F as comfortably as I can hold out a third line Bb?" If not, maybe I'm not as proficient at that register as I thought.
Touching on (2.), it is much more a coordination effort than difficulty when it comes to the high register. Often just taking kids melodies up the octave is enough to start to develop functional/musical progress up there (credit - Joey Tartell). Keeps the tune in the ear and allows you to go slow enough to help the body understand.
Just time and "less" effort. Good luck! |
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mograph
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Joined: 17 Feb 2020
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 8:44 am Post subject: |
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One bit of information about playing high and low that I haven't seen is that when playing high and low, you use (pretty much) the same embouchure: at the lips. However, the air and oral cavity (tongue arch and jaw opening) are different for both ends of the range. Arguably, less pressure on the upper lip in the high end, less pressure on the lower lip in the low end: this is when the head appears to nod slightly, looking down a bit when in the low end.
Also, "we can't play high notes because we don't play enough high notes"(from onlyson) is truth.
Your mileage may vary, but that works for me.
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1809
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| Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| mograph wrote: | | One bit of information about playing high and low that I haven't seen is that when playing high and low, you use (pretty much) the same embouchure: at the lips. |
Yes! People tend to think there is a greater difference than there is. Nice addition. I can quibble with the rest of your statement as that changes on an individual level, but this is on the money. The form stays practically the same. |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Sun May 05, 2024 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| onlyson wrote: | I attended a clinic years ago where the speaker (I can't remember who it was. It was 50 years ago. Sue me.) said we can't play high notes because we don't play enough high notes. It didn't make sense at the time but I think I understand now.
So....practice high notes. How? Play Clarke #1. As high as you can go. This week maybe you'll own a G. Next week an Ab. Etc., etc.
Play Clarke #5. Everyday day. Memorize it. Maybe 6 months from now you'll own that High C.
Play the two octave Stamp articulation exercise. That's nearly a dozen high notes right there.
It's like pushups. How many can you do? 5? 10? Whatever. But if you do them everyday for a month, how many can you do then? More for sure.
High notes are like that. |
The reason someone can't play high(er) notes is because they aren't doing what needs to be done to play them. For me it was more than just not playing enough high notes - endless range-building exercises, working at the top of my range didn't improve my range because I was working with a really defective setup. It required me to rework how I played and be conscious of specific things.
To go higher/lower louder/softer you have to make the necessary changes to go there.
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falado
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Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 944
Location: Eastern NC
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| Posted: Sun May 05, 2024 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, for me high range was a byproduct of doing flexibility exercises in combination with doing Clarke I and II as my long tone exercises. I sometimes cascade or alternate the Clarke, I.e. starting at F# the doing G, the F, then G# (Ab), then E, etc.
Also, as a young student at the Armed Forces School of Music my trumpet instructor was at one time a Claude Gordon student. Once I started SA with the exercises already mentioned my range really opened up.
Dave
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Denny Schreffler
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Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 2:04 am Post subject: Re: basic high register |
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| chuck in ny wrote: | i am determined to progress my playing using simple and common sense methods.
with range i am up to high C. i don't own it but can hit it. i hit it and sometimes hold it for an extra beat. having the energy you could play multiples but right now it's usually the one.
it's an uncomplicated matter. having a small measure of control over high C i am able to hit C# with valve 2. C will have to be worked on for a period of time before C# comes into any sort of focus.
better technique will hopefully come with time and observation. |
Look at Eddie Lewis's book - One Range. It's simple (¿How do you eat an elephant?), and all about common sense. No exercises, just strategies to take your current true range and build on it, naturally.
Your current range would be somewhere below the high C that you're up to but don't own.
It would be hard to stick with if you had recurring obligations requiring you to perform beyond the true range.
Part of Eddie's description from the web page for the book ...
One Range is not an exercise book. There are no high note exercises on these pages. There are no exercises at all. The book is 100% text. Instead of gaining a better range through pounding your chops with high note drills, One Range helps you build your range in a more natural manner. You can even use the exercises you are already practicing with slight modifications.
https://tigermusicstore.com/product/one-range-trumpet-range-pdf-ebook/
—Denny |
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Shaft
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 995
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 5:47 am Post subject: |
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The big thing for me was the Jim Manley Skype lessons and follow up Q & A.
Past posts will show work with Clint Mclaughlin as well.
Once I learned how little air is required from Jim along with learning how to activate the standing wave with a good tone it all locked in to place.
Here is a clip after not touching the horn in a week. No warm up no nothing with a cigarette to boot. (Yes a person would be better not to smoke) I just want to demonstrate that it really does not take more work than necessary.
https://youtube.com/shorts/LYianLddMY4?si=O_pSrSv95i5Si5KW |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2616
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: | The big thing for me was the Jim Manley Skype lessons and follow up Q & A.
Past posts will show work with Clint Mclaughlin as well.
Once I learned how little air is required from Jim along with learning how to activate the standing wave with a good tone it all locked in to place.
Here is a clip after not touching the horn in a week. No warm up no nothing with a cigarette to boot. (Yes a person would be better not to smoke) I just want to demonstrate that it really does not take more work than necessary.
https://youtube.com/shorts/LYianLddMY4?si=O_pSrSv95i5Si5KW |
Good job!
What year is the Vette? Looks somewhere in the C5 era.
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Shaft
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Haha thanks. ‘97 first yr of the C5. 55k miles 6 spd LS1 345 Hp |
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chuck in ny
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 10:33 am Post subject: |
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i have changed up my practice from playing scales to playing high notes. clint mcglaughlin/pops/Bb trumpet is my teacher and his simple prescription is to the effect, 100? As, so many Bs, so many Cs, and to that effect.
i could not take the advice seriously because the large volume of notes would be excessive for my chops. we are all prone to moments of incomprehension, rigidity, and so forth. it has finally occurred to me to take the advice but stay numerically well within myself.
i was playing progressively higher scales and letting the register come. i can now see that making the register come is several times more effective and am having quite a good time standing on As and Bs.
individual notes are simpler and more stone age than scales and this has been my current approach to trumpet. |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: | | Haha thanks. ‘97 first yr of the C5. 55k miles 6 spd LS1 345 Hp |
Excellent!
'80 here. I gave some kid in a late model Mustang a "talking to" the other night.  He probably thought the hi-rise hood was just for show. It's had some enhancements. *cough*
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Shaft
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 995
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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That’s the one. B-flattrumpet.com. Pops taught me how to bring in my abs for compression, Use Lip to lip compression, lip set point, and The basics of the Stevens embouchure, while adding a pucker from the Maggio set up. In fact, we made a video Ecourse that’s for sale on there. Cheap like 20 bucks. We used to always take songs up in octave too. To get comfortable and work on musicality, even basic ones like from the Getchell book. it’s OK to do 10 or 20 of a high notes to start. It basically trains, repitition memory, and all of that. Pops sat in with Don Jacoby on many of his students’ lessons. Jacoby had his students do it on one note with all seven combinations of fingerings. That will teach a person some repitition memory. He also made them do it 50 times in a row and if they messed up once they had to start all over.
The C4 is a great body style too. I had a 94 6 spd w/ the LT1 and 300 hp. Put about 60k miles on it and sold it w/ about 105k. I put an X pipe on it and a stage two clutch. This red one is still stock for now, but a Pro charger or turbo is on the to do list. |
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Denny Schreffler
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 392
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: basic high register |
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| Denny Schreffler wrote: | | chuck in ny wrote: | i am determined to progress my playing using simple and common sense methods.
with range i am up to high C. i don't own it but can hit it. i hit it and sometimes hold it for an extra beat. having the energy you could play multiples but right now it's usually the one.
it's an uncomplicated matter. having a small measure of control over high C i am able to hit C# with valve 2. C will have to be worked on for a period of time before C# comes into any sort of focus.
better technique will hopefully come with time and observation. |
Look at Eddie Lewis's book - One Range. It's simple (¿How do you eat an elephant?), and all about common sense. No exercises, just strategies to take your current true range and build on it, naturally.
Your current range would be somewhere below the high C that you're up to but don't own.
It would be hard to stick with if you had recurring obligations requiring you to perform beyond the true range.
Part of Eddie's description from the web page for the book ...
One Range is not an exercise book. There are no high note exercises on these pages. There are no exercises at all. The book is 100% text. Instead of gaining a better range through pounding your chops with high note drills, One Range helps you build your range in a more natural manner. You can even use the exercises you are already practicing with slight modifications.
https://tigermusicstore.com/product/one-range-trumpet-range-pdf-ebook/
—Denny |
Here's a vid of Eddie talking about the book
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyVwhmyI3DA
—Denny |
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Shaft
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 995
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 9:55 am Post subject: |
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This clip is 45 seconds. It took a while to get a good tone on the leadpipe but getting used to that and then transferring that feel is what did it for me.
https://youtube.com/shorts/wUR8paDHmvU?si=GRjaSpPximcDdZYN
I’d love to see pics of your vette Robert |
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