Standard vs Reverse Leadpipe

[rhatheway]

I've come to understand there are two different types of leadpipes - standard and reverse. If I understand it correctly, the standard leadpipe is the one that the majority of horns have, with the tuning slide that goes inside of the leadpipe, while the reverse leadpipe is just the opposite (the tuning slide goes over the leadpipe).

Conceptually, I can understand that the reverse leadpipe design would probably have a smoother (not sure if that is the right word) blow, as there is not a lip inside the leadpipe from the edge of the tuning slide that might create a small vortex as the air is being blown through the leadpipe. Is that correct? Is that why some people prefer the reverse leadpipe to the standard leadpipe? And is the difference in leadpipe design really that noticeable, or is it really just for that extremely small percentage of players who make their living from playing trumpet?

[JayKosta]

It's not really about how air flows through the tubing (because the amount of actual flow is quite small), but more about how the interval 'standing' sound waves) bounce around and are affected by the 'edge' of the tubing.

Basically the 'reversed' design allows the leadpipe length be longer before the edge is encountered. Also the position of the brace that attaches the bell to the leadpipe is in a different location.

It is just 1 element in how a trumpet is designed, and all the related design considerations TOGETHER are what determines the overall characteristics of the instrument.

But ... there seems to be common thought that reverse design is associated with a more free / open 'blow', and perhaps with 'wider slots' - meaning the player is required to pay more attention to the getting the desired pitch.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
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[mograph]

[Jerry]

[JayKosta]

[matthes93401]

The improved openness and flexibility of the reverse pipe come at the expense of a sharper concert F on top of the staff. Maybe a few builders know tricks to lessen that.

[Rhondo]

With the reverse leadpipe I had, response didn’t feel as immediate as standard configuration, but that may have been at least in part because the reverse pipe was a conversion onto a standard weight horn with gold bell.

Reverse or standard seems to be about personal preference in context with other facets of a horn.

[spitvalve]

When I bought my Bach LR180 I A-B'd it with a standard Bach 37. The LR180 was more responsive, free-blowing, and better in tune fhan the standard horn. Keep in mind that the LR180 has a lightweight body and standard weight bell vs the standard weight body and bell on the regular, which may have some bearing on the sound and response, but I think the reverse leadpipe is what made the intonation better.

My Getzen has a standard leadpipe but has very good intonation. Would it be even better with a reverse leadpipe? I can't say for sure because there are so many variables.

The conventional wisdom about reverse leadpipes is that it improves response, airflow, and intonation. That may vary from brand to brand and horn to horn.
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Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[zaferis]

[rhatheway]

[shofarguy]

Just one adjustment to your description of the design difference between standard and reversed mouth pipe:

In both cases, the tuning slide top leg butts up to the mouth pipe tube, with a gap between them, as the slide is pulled to tune. These tubes are surrounded by an outer receiver tube, either soldered into the mouth pipe, in the case of the standard configuration, or to the tuning slide in the case of the reversed configuration. In addition, there is another length of outer tube on the reversed design that serves as a mounting point for the bell brace (as it also does for the standard) and to join the mouth pipe to a cylindrical extension tube that slides inside the tuning slide’s outer receiver tube. Normally, this tube is the tuning slide’s upper leg. It is almost never part of the actual mouth pipe.

It is the attachment of this inner tube that makes the difference. The other changes follow this one. Why is it done? To the best of my knowledge, it is to move the gap between the mouth pipe and tuning slide further down the length of the instrument. This change also requires the bell brace to be mounted closer to the valve block, unless a third tube is added outside of the normal two, as with some C-trumpet designs.
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[Brassnose]

To complicate the matter further, there is also a double reverse configuration, as seen here: https://www.blechin.de/endres-8

I have never seen or played one and think some Martins had that setup as well.

Not sure what that does but it will (again) depend on the rest of the horn setup.
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[kalijah]

[kehaulani]

Practically speaking, I have never felt a difference. I think that there are so many other affiliated acoustic treatments and tweaks that the end result is a gestalt not a direct cause and effect.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Adams A-9 Trumpet
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Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale).