In defense of the 37 Strad

[Stradbrother]

Hey friends.

A few weeks ago a thread was posted here that really brought me back. It was all about the downsides of the 37 Strad.

It was pretty cathartic for me. Let me explain...

Back in high school when I knew I was going to go to college for music, I bought my first professional horn - a Bach 37.

To be honest with you all, I didn't love it. In fact, I really liked playing my Getzen 700SP more than the Strad. But all of my private teachers told me "make sure you get yourself a Bach Strad", and a 37 was the only available.

To make a long story longer, this was right in the middle of the Bach strike, and boy, I got a dud. It was a horrific horn. It was super heavy, unbalanced, the engraving was shoddy, the valves were ALWAYS sticky and the springs were noisy. It felt incredibly tight above the staff, and intonation was always iffy.

But again, I bought it sight unseen. I was young, I didn't know things could vary in the trumpet world.

It wasn't until college that I tried another horn, a Bach 43 from way before the strike. It was like a whole different horn. It played so well, so effortlessly.

I was so frustrated.

I sold that crappy Strad I bought for hardly anything and never touched another 37 for 2 decades.

Now, that was until this past week.

I found a new 37 strad, serial number in the 760,000 range; very recently built.

It has changed my view on the 37 strad entirely. Now that I'm older and a much better player (someone who plays everyday for a living, that is), I get it.

A good Bach 37 has such a fantastic sound with so much core and focus to the tone. The sound reminds me of how I feel about the Bach 229 bell C trumpets, as in, a very mature, focused tone with very little spread.

The Charlier #2 on a good Bach 37 sounds so incredibly "mature". Just compact, focused, with a ton of color and core to the sound. Seriously, probably the best low C I've ever had on a horn. Just so focused, so much color.

However, this doesn't mean I would recommend the horn to a student. I still think the Bach 37 is incredibly tough to play. With the standard "square" tuning slide with double braces, the horn is incredibly tight. The slots are very very "stiff" in my opinion as well.

Let's not paint this horn like its fighting you, you can play high, you can slur all throughout the range of the horn, but the 37 doesn't do you any favors. You definitely have to work for everything that comes out of the bell of the horn.

Again, that is just my opinion, but with many students being taught to put a ton of air through the horn as a beginner, I feel like a 43 or 72 style bell is a bit more forgiving for students.

I'll probably never have another horn take the spot of my Don Miles horn, but that doesn't mean I'm not blown away by how good a Bach 37 can be.
_________________
Don Miles Cinci
1947 Martin Committee M bore
Bach 229 Chicago
Bach 183 Flugelhorn
Bach LB 239 Eb/D Long Bell
Bach 184 Cornet
DEG Signature 2000 piccolo

[Rhondo]

[Stradbrother]

[Rhondo]

You only have one sample to judge it on.

You may have a better Bach than the one you had before, but possibly it’s a good sample as opposed to an excellent one.

[Dayton]

I'm a big fan of the Bach 18037/19037. There have been many other options for around a century now, but that horn has stood the test of time, with some tweaks. Many of the great players of the past played it, and many great contemporary player still do. The 19037 gen 2 is superb; at least as good as anything Bach has offered in the past if not better.

Having said that, no one horn is best for everyone. For those that the Bach 18037 just doesn't work, or those who have simply decided they want something else, there are lots of excellent options -- some modeled on the 18037 -- including others from Bach like the wonderful 19043 and 19072V as well as models from Del Quadro, Divitt, Edwards/Getzen, Harrelson, Larson, Monette, Schilke, Shires, Stomvi, Thane, Van Laar, Yamaha. And fine vintage horns still available used from Bach, Benge, Conn, Olds, (and Blessing, Kanstul, Lawler, Sonare...)...available used.

[yinzbrass]

For me, the variation in quality between like strads is a real issue for what purports to be a professional instrument. The strad in my signature is a nimble horn with pretty good intonation and a great sound. I've played on strads that vary from outstanding to lamps-in-waiting. The Yammies and Getzens may not play quite as well as the best strads, but (in my experience) are much more consistent.

I can easily try before I buy, separating the wheat from the chaff. It is sometimes harder to keep my students (and their parents) from plunking down several thousand dollars on a shiny new horn before I can play test it. I'd prefer that none of us need play trumpet roulette.
_________________
Tim Leenerts
Bb: '67 Bach 37, Monette B3 S3 Resonance
C: '09 Eastman 530, Monette C3
D/Eb: Besson/Kanstul, Monette E3 S3
A/Bb Picc: Early '70s Selmer 365, ACB 7PT
Bb Cornet: Getzen 3850 Custom, Wick 4B
Flugel: Dillon, Marcinkiewicz 3FLD

[Stradbrother]

[Dizzyr1971]

I'd say mine is a 10/10, it has a lovely sound and is very free blowing. But the deep slotting does make it quite hard work to play, sometimes it feels a bit like I'm clunking about in a suit of heavy armour....which btw has the advantage of keeping me in shape!

I find the way it makes me play, needing loads of air to maintain the sound, forces me to play continuos flowing improvised lines. On my lighter trumpets I sometimes find that I start playing lines which jump about in a disjointed way that don't dig so much
_________________
I'm an advanced amateur trumpet player, I started studying jazz and improvisation in 2010, follower of Barry Harris
Olds Supers 1946+1965
Bach Strad 180-37 1982
CarolBrass CTR-5060L-YST-Bb-L
Couesnon Flugelhorn

[abontrumpet]

[zaferis]

without writing a novel, I will point out something that doesn't get added to this discussion:
The Bach 37 has been around since when??? So when we're talking about "them" you're talking about generations. Lets compare with say Yamaha.. If you're comparing a 37 to a 6335 (just to pick one) Yamaha's offering would have short production period in comparison, then "upgrade" to a new model and design.. To me explaining/reinforcing the reoccurring "inconsistency" comments about Bach. So, Yamaha has it easier to have a reputation of being more consistent-accurate or not.
Yes, Bach had a well known period of time that production (because of union and other influences) was inconsistent. But with only minor changes the 18037 design has lasted. The New-ish 19037 Anniversary was a throw back to a time before many of the small changes were made... A great horn that MANY have tried to copy or "improve". IMO nothing has replaced the sound, versatility, and playability of a good 37.
Add in that brass is not a consistent metal and ages.. i.e. a 30, 40, 50 year old Bach 37 is likely gonna sound/play different than a new one based solely on that aspect.

One of my teachers said as a throw away statement that has stuck with me as a strong understanding... "I you want to, or need to, learn how to do a proper lip slur you need a Bach (37)" (I was playing a Benge at that time).. The more students I work with and the more those students show up with other trumpets, the more this statement proves itself.

In my own experience of a long list of different trumpets, some GREAT trumpets (production and boutique) Bach 37 is what I return to. 19037
Consistent reproducible, controllable, appropriate sound and clarity in all settings.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[CaptPat]

I find it interesting that the Bach 37 seems to be the only trumpet model that engenders such a wide variety of opinions.
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 180S37
Getzen Custom Series 3895
_______________________________________
I play trumpet because I like it, not because I'm good at it.

[Chickynuggie]

For my $0.02, I was in a very similar situation - I played a King Silver Flair into college. I was instructed to buy a Bach. We only had one in 300 miles to test back then, and I worked all summer to buy it. I hated that horn, hated everything about it. But I was told that’s what I needed. I got through college, spent $300 on a rotary (neither of the rotaries in my signature are this horn) and sold the Bach. As you can see from my signature, I’ve now almost fully converted to Stomvi, as I’ve found their Master models to be exactly what I’ve always wanted. Maybe I had a bad Bach, but I also couldn’t change the tone. It’s sound was its sound. It was the same for my friend’s Mt Vernon Strad. That horn was better, but I’ll likely never switch from Stomvi, now. Strads may be (or may have been) the standard, but it wasn’t for me.
_________________
Stomvi Master Titanium Bb
Stomvi Master C
Stomvi B.T.S./Master Eb/D
Stomvi Combi Piccolo
Stomvi Master Flugelhorn
Stomvi Titan Rotary C
King Super 20 Symphony (Artist engraved)
Ricco Kühn Rotary Bb
King Silver Sonic Cornet

[Steve A]

Clearly it doesn't fit everyone, and that's fine. No other single instrument does either - that's why they make more than one.

But the suggestion that there's anything wrong with the design is hard to take seriously. There has easily been more great-sounding trumpet playing on a Bach 37 in the past 75 years than any other single trumpet design. I don't own one, so I'm not trying to boost it on account of personal bias, but the facts speak for themselves. Anyone who suggests otherwise clearly has an axe to grind (for whatever reason) that's blinding them to the reality of this.

[LittleRusty]

[OtherJMitch]

A good 37 has so much character in the sound. I know a French horn player who played his grandfather’s early Elkhart 37 in jazz band, and wow could that horn play!!! Every now and then we’d switch just for fun and I would soar over the band while he struggled on my Xeno
_________________
“Words make you think thoughts. Music makes you feel feelings. Songs make you feel thoughts.”
-Yip Harburg

[yourbrass]

As has been pointed out, there are more 37's than any other trumpet on the planet. I'm pretty sure it's still the biggest seller, too. It's the first recommendation from many band directors to parents seeking a step up horn.

And it's also like any other brand of trumpet, it runs the gamut from great to poor. One of the best trumpets I ever rebuilt was a 37 back in the 90's. I'm currently rebuilding a 37 from the early 50's and both of these horns are players, but there are a lot of differences.

What's tough these days is the disappearence of music stores where one could go and try horns. It's a pig-in-a-poke when you order online, as many have found out.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /James R. New Studio backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[Rhondo]

[mograph]

My '85 Strad, with a Curry 3C, gives a beautiful, dark tone, and with a shallow piece, it's an easy lead player up to a D, more if I focus. After a big band rehearsal, I ask "what else ya got? Don't end the rehearsal now!"

But I do need to focus on "pressing the air" (my term, hope it makes sense) with my core to make the horn do what I want. Without the air, it's very limited.

I'm having trouble connecting the higher notes back down to the C/B/A above the staff. But at this point, I attribute that difficulty to my lack of skill, so I'll get some help on it.

That's my position: I'm not yet at the point where I can say it's the horn, and not me.

... but I'll start saving up for a new one, and then start testing. I don't want to test horns until I can afford to buy a new one.
_________________
1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music

[huntman10]

While I really enjoy playing my collectible Olds, Conn,and Getzen horns as well as others, my high school and college studies were on 37 Strad trumpet and cornet. About the time I moved from college to the various aspects of "real life", I had acquired a late Mt Vernon unmarked bell Strad that I felt was my "true voice". Only after nearly 30 years did I get the shop card and find that it was a 43. Still have it, and a 37 cornet. Over the years I have picked up a few more 37 bell trumpets from time to time. Honestly, a few were lesser performers (all "pre-strike") but it always seemed a could work with whoever my "horn guru" at the time to improve them, with services like valve alignment, de-stressing some of life's little "owees", occasionally a new pipe, and that sort of thing.

Probably the most dramatic improvement was on a "Lone Star Special" shiny thing I spent too much on. The first valve was a bit low on compression, and response was just awful. I was lucky that I found an oversized piston that easily lapped in by hand. The horn also had received some kind of impact that had dented the bell at the brace on the flair side. I had my technician dismount the bell to straighten it, which took out the stresses. He then did a precise alignment of the valves. It became my favorite "serious" horn for about 6 years.

I probably should have kept it, but I started reducing my ridiculous excess, and couldn't pass up an offer. I actually use my 37 cornet now for those concerts.
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[Winghorn]

Over the years I have found that many people who say that Bach Strads do not play well do not play well themselves.

Once again, we have the opinions of posters about whose playing level we know nothing about.

I once owned a Mt. Vernon Strad that a couple of amateur players felt was too “stuffy” and not a good instrument. It is now being played by the principal trumpet in one of the top American Orchestras.

Bach instruments may not be right for everyone (what horn is?) and some may be perceived as better than others. But if you plan to listen to someone else as to what trumpet to buy, or even try, I would make sure to consider their background.