Tongue endurance

[tptguy]

Author
nicolashuang
Veteran Member

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 125
From: Singapore
Posted: 2003-06-25 07:39
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My tongue gets tired after about 45 mins of practice, with short breaks in between. Is this normal? When my tongue gets tired I can no longer hold it up to compress the air and I find that my tone starts to crumble.

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Lex Grantham
Veteran Member

Joined: Nov 13, 2001
Posts: 341
From: East Texas
Posted: 2003-06-25 17:41
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Yes, I would say your tongue would begin to tire after awhile...particularly if you have not been attempting SC/TCE for very long. As time goes on, your tongue will begin to become used to the manner in which it must function, and the strength gained will allow longer times of playing (endurance) before you give out.

Just rest between practice sessions, as the muscles need to rebuild to be fresh again.

Sincerely,

Lex Grantham

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nicolashuang
Veteran Member

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 125
From: Singapore
Posted: 2003-06-26 05:39
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I played on the euphonium today and got quite a nice sound on low C and up. But sometimes when I play higher I get this "eee" sound from the throat and the sound gets rather thin. I unconsciously did something that got rid of it and got a nice sound sometimes througout my practice but I still can't figure out what it is and what was wrong. Also, when using relaxed lips when playing pedals and then using the tongue only to increase the pitch, it seems like mostly just air is heard from my spit buzz.

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Lex Grantham
Veteran Member

Joined: Nov 13, 2001
Posts: 341
From: East Texas
Posted: 2003-06-27 00:21
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Nicolas:

Maybe the sound from your throat is due to tightening your neck as you play.

One of the characteristics when playing SC is that the player's neck will expand somewhat.

Attempt some easy pitches, and as you try to ascend, do not allow tension to creep in.

Sincerely,

Lex Grantham

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nicolashuang
Veteran Member

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 125
From: Singapore
Posted: 2003-06-28 01:48
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I find that I'm straining on air compression to reach middle C. Now my lips are not straining at all but the tongue and throat and diaphragm is straining to compress the air. I can't go much higher and the tone sucks once I start to strain. My aperture looks rather big. Should the lips move back and grip the tongue firmly even from the pedal range all the way up?

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fzr Phil
Veteran Member

Joined: Nov 07, 2001
Posts: 125
From: Grays, Essex, UK
Posted: 2003-06-28 04:24
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Nicolas,
tension in the throat is caused because your body is trying to help create the neccesary resistance. you play very open equipment i.e a cornet and dw 4 mouthpiece, so your throat is closing to help increase the resistance that you are not creating in the front of your mouth with your lips together and tongue laying behind them (embouchure).try and visualise that your embouchure is the only thing holding back your air. make sure you are not trying to 'blow' your air. e.g you are not trying to blow out the candles on your birthday cake!
with your instrument at your lips and your embouchure relaxed and ready ( tongue right up behind your lips), take a deep breath through the mouth corners and as you pull in your stomach to start expelling your air, keep your embouchure closed ( tension), try and feel the slightly increased air pressure in your neck - slightly relax the tension on your embouchure with your tongue and you should get a spit attack- 'pop'- staccato note or something - due to the air ripping through the (decreased) tension of your lips/tongue into the freedom of low pressure in your mp and instrument.
keep doing it! even just a few in a row so that you get used to the feel. you should eventually be able to spit attack ( 'pop' spit buzz e.tc) every note in the scale within your range- as your embouchure gets stronger. increase the intensity of the air attack ( air compression) and you are increasing the tension required to stop the air and building strength into your embouchure.

re. tension make sure your muscles are flexing inwards (towards mp/aperture)and that you are not e.g pulling away (smiling).
remember how tension forces work ( back to physics) e.g tension in a rope or the spokes of a wheel or even a drum skin is inwards!

i like to/ have been pulling the instrument straight off my face after the note, off - on e.tc and just play the staccato 'pop' at the instant my lips /mp make contact.
similar if i was to play say off-beat quavers, i often only press the valve for the instant it is needed even if the note is the same.

also i have played around exersizing my tongue off horn (in private) e.g tensing it almost into a ball e.tc i am sure it has helped because i could really feel the muscles tire at first and now it does'nt so much.
also another novel aproach i have is if i should sneeze. i used to almost yell out a banshee cry ( and had quite a reutation for power sneezing) now if i should sneeze i really try to resist the power of the sneeze with my tongue sealing against my lip.it can still be quite a rip! esp as my tongue is getting stronger at keeping the tension seal.


When you experienced the tension (as described by you above) what exactly were you doing i.e what exersise? was it the end of a 32 bar phrase? or a half scale up from f ?
i think if you can describe what books/ literature you have available to you then you could probably be given a dose of particular exersises. e.g arbans pg... or clarkes...

good luck and i hope my comments are relevent to your progress as well as they seem to be for mine right now.


_________________
Phil Martin
-dedication, thats what you need....

Besson 600 trumpet - GR NB63***
Besson 928 sovereign Cornet - GR NB63*** #7 (also #5 and #8 avail)
besson new standard soprano cornet GR nb63*** cornet #5

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nicolashuang
Veteran Member

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 125
From: Singapore
Posted: 2003-06-28 05:38
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Thanks for your reply, Phil. I was trying to relax my lips as much as possible and just let the tongue compress the air and get the notes. I was experiencing tension when I was playing the upper range of my limited register (Low A-Mid C and up, sometimes low G). Sometimes there was no tension but it forgot what I did and I only do it sometimes unconsciously. My friend said that I looked as if I was putting too much effort just to play those notes!
I've been doing this book called the Symphonic Band technique, the tonguing exercises parts, which really tires my tongue up once I start on it.