Kanstul Bergeron Model - Change?

[Trptbenge]

Hi Everyone!

I played a Kanstul Bergeron today. I had played them before - the last time about a year ago during the Trumpet Fest/ Zeus Tour here in Atlanta and it felt too big.

The horn I played today was different. It did not feel big at all. The bell looks slightly smaller then the last one I played. Even with these changes it felt very good as I went to a high F. It also plays soft very easy - something I don't remember the last one doing. Has there been a slight change in the construction of the horn. This horn seems so much better and closer to the horn that I saw Wayne play in a Master Class he gave. Am I just imagining it or has it changed slightly. It really played very well. A friend of mine was salivating over it and I think he will end up buying it. A nice horn!

Mike

[ This Message was edited by: trptbenge on 2004-02-06 11:25 ]

[_ConnMan]

Mike,

I've been drueling over one, too! I'm trying to save up some $$ to take the plunge.

The only change that I'm aware of is, and it's only a very small one, is that it used to be stamped on the receiver as "WB". The newer ones I'm pretty sure are either stamped, "1600" or "1600 WB". I'm not aware of any bell changes occuring.

Hey, you wanna see a cool WB? Check out my friend's website of the brushed silver WB (it's her husband's): http://www.pickmusic.net/images/JH%20brushed%20WB.jpg

Here's a few other finishes, too: http://www.pickmusic.net/signature_series.htm
_________________
Playing For Him,

Kanstul 1600 "WB" w/ Kanstul two-piece B3C & S72 BB
Connstellation 38B
Kanstul 925 Flugelhorn (copper bell) w/ Kanstul two-piece BFL3C w/ 119S BB
Jupiter 416BL Pocket Trpt.
www.measureofgrace.com

[bebop]

I think that some of the early Kanstul Bergeron horns were opened a little at the beginning of the leadpipe, and some weren't.

I'm not sure about this, but that is what Washington Music told me. I also played one that Dillon Music had at the IAJE that felt a little smaller to me.
Jim

[Martin]

I could be wrong about this, but wasn´t the WB originally all brass?
On the links above, I see nickel-silver outer slides which I don´t remember seeing on the earlier versions.
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

[HorneyMikey]

Regarding the rumor that Wayne is playing something else:

I just got an email from him. He is still using his original horn, with the raw bras bell. The only reason it is still is raw brass is that he has not had time to get the horn plated.
As far as the horns being changed, I guess tht is a question for Jim New or Charlie Hargett

Mike

[PiCK Kanstul]

There haven't been any changes - to the stamping or the leadpipe or the slides.
the receivers say WB. the slides still nickel silver.
They are playing the same as always. What they do to tweak the leadpipe, I don't know.

http://www.pickmusic.net/signature_series.htm
_________________
Priscilla C. King (aka pair of kings)

[Trptbenge]

PC,

It just seemed that the bell on one I played seemed larger and the horn felt a little too large. Of course I have been playing a Selmer Chorus 80J so my idea of large may have changed a little. It played extremely well and did not feel too large at all.

Thanks!

Mike

[PiCK Kanstul]

interesting point, Mike

From seeing a lot of players response to the different instruments, I will say that relative perception has a lot to do with one's opinion of an instrument.

did that make sense?
same horn in different hands is dark or bright, heavy or light, open or tight.
some of it is going to be the mouthpiece match and a lot of it will be what you are used to.

That is whay I try to inventory a good selection.
my <$.02

[a-okay]

Ask wayne about his yamaha vs. the kanstul?

[HorneyMikey]

No, I did not realize Wayne had a Yamaha. Is this a new development?

Mike

[tradjazzman]

Hi,
All I can say it is one COOL LOOKING & SOUNDING horn. I bought one from PICK MUSIC & it was an awesome player. I sold it to a fellow that loves the way it plays. I only sold it because most of my work is of the bright, lead old time sound. I kind of like the old s-bore selmers for that.

(for me) The Kanstul WB had a very modern cool jazz / and lead sound. As PC King said in her post (I think that is PC)...... all horns DO play different for differnt players. What is dark for me, will play BRIGHT for the next person, depending on our mouthpiece, and our sound in general.

But with out a doubt the Kanstul WB was one of the finest trumpets that I ever played. In my opinion for Big Band, and especailly jazz combo..........it's awesome. One way I would describe what I thought was that it had a very "CLEAN" sound.
If you're looking for a new horn and out tring them, don't pass that up a chance of playing/ tring one if you can. I think you'll be pleasantly surprized.

And this is coming from a guy that normally doesn't play or like any horns made past 1964 (LOL). The Kanstul was an acception. A great made trumpet.

Ben
1935 Bach Cornet LB
1954 Paris Selmer 19A

[a-okay]

yes the Yamaha thing is a good thing - he played the horn yammy prototype on the producers and quite a bit. And the new kanstuls are not like the horn he plays

[PiCK Kanstul]

a ok wrote

[Trptbenge]

PC,

This is interesting how this thread has gotten a little off the mark. I had mentioned that this WB model felt and maybe was slightly different from one I played over a year ago and now we have this baloney about Yamaha. I should have been more specific about the horn. I was at a Master Class/concert that Wayne gave about three years ago and he was nice enough to let people try his horn. The horn I tried the other day is very close to Waynes horn. I think his leadpipe and bell were raw brass. He has a good relationship with Kanstul and I know he is still playing their horn.

The WB model I played the other day was one of the best horns I have played. It opened up in the upper register and spoke very easy when I played soft. Kanstul has really gotten this horn right.

Mike
_________________
It's the sound that makes the difference!

[a-okay]

Hello TH folks and Mr. Picky; be annoyed or ask a question!

Here is some dope on the subject since you asked;

The main reason the Kanstul horn Wayne has played and owns is not yet plated is because Kanstul has not made a second horn that plays the same as the one he made for Wayne. True Story! And not becasue he is sooo busy as you say. Thus, the other Kanstul Bergeron models (though very nice horns) are not the same as what he is playing!

Second of all, there is a prototype Yamaha that he has been playing (that I have tired - though it is a bit big on the front end for me) But he sounds even better on. And he HAS been working and recording on it.

Any other questions please ask me in an email.

[oopapada]

old WB horn add heavy bottom cap on 3rd valve
1600 is normal cap
Wayne use heavy cap on 1st and 3rd valve when I met him(few years ago)
he said 1st heavy cap for better slot for D
he tweak leadpipe(open up)
raw brass bell with silverplated body and many minor dents

[ScreamMachine1987]

Let me set the factual record straight about the WB's to Aok. I bought my WB through Mr. Bergeron having it delivered to WMC to make sure it was THE horn for me. There are differences between the stock WB's and Wayne's horn and the horn that he sent me. Wayne insists on a Reeves alignment first and then he does a leadpipe tweak to open the horn up. THAT IS IT!!!!!! Unfortunately PiCK Music was not around when I started with my WB, but I have played several WB's that have come stock from the factory from her store. The ONLY consistent differences between stock and tweaked WB's are occasional intonation problems with low E and high A's, and a playing tightness. The intonation problems are resolved by a Reeves alignment and the tightness is cured by Waynes personal tweaking. The brushed lacquer finnish was NOT available when Wayne had his horn made! He is not a horn freak that must play the latest greatest sales gimmick. Although he likes the new brushed finnish, he likes his regular lacquered horn the way it is. As far as Yamaha, please give it a rest. I have talked with Wayne and there IS NO FREAKING YAMAHA ANYWHERE !!!!
I know four very prominant players in my area playing WB's. They are fantastic horns stock or tweaked.

[Trptbenge]

Thanks ScreamMachine for setting the record straight!

Will Wayne tweak the leadpipe if you ask him to? I am wondering if you could send it to Reeves and then send it to Wayne or visa Versa.

I also want to apologize about starting this thread. It all started with me asking about maybe a slight change in a horn I played about a year ago and the one I played this week. It is possible that the horns do play a little different (there are sometimes slight differences from horn to horn). I am a stronger player now and I have been playing a .463 bore horn so when I play the WB it doesn't feel too large for me. I do know the one I played this week is a terrific horn. It speaks very easy and opens up in the upper register.

Mike

[ScreamMachine1987]

TrptBenge Mike - I sent you a private message about this topic.

I did want to add that the heavy valve cap bottoms really didn't do much for me. Wayne changes their location and how many he uses depending on what style music he is playing.



[ This Message was edited by: ScreamMachine1987 on 2004-02-07 22:39 ]

[PiCK Kanstul]

Thanks ScreamMachine -for helping to set the record straight. - Mike too.

I want to say that there was one of the WBs that came in - and I think it was one you (scream machine) played and we talked about - felt tight - I sent it back and asked Kanstul to check it out - whatever they did to it - I don't know but it played great when they sent it back to me. I've played every one I've sold and they are AMAZINGLY consistant. My husband (Mr. PiCKY - finally bought one the end of Oct. and spent almost a week trying to choose one over another.

A player of Wayne's caliber is going to fine tune his axe no matter what brand.
There is nothing fundamentally different about the horns, though I think that was the question and I hope that's clear.

the truth is personally- it doesn't really matter to me what Wayne Bergeron plays. I think it is very cool that he is playing a Kanstul. He is a player for sure.
It leaves no doubt in my mind as to what the instruments are capable of. and fwiw, Scream Machine is working it too for most of you who won't know him. There are fat Notes over Double C in the horn. I will hear it from other players on gigs I play with that he is nailing, Triple Es and Fs to the wall.

Kanstul is doing something right. I really think if they were to make a change to the horn they would give it a new model number. If Wayne makes a real switch to Yamaha, They would most likely NOT refer to the 1600 as a WB.

Just to further clear the record, I don't have any issues with anyone playing the horn of choice, whether it be Bach, Yamaha whatever. I choose to sell Kanstul. and personally have replaced most everything I previously owned including Selmer Bach and Yamaha.
I also know what kind of reputation Bob Malone has and has had among players. Yamaha has a history of showing interest in attracting top players. It's brainless to think that with Yamaha resources and Bob's expertise that they would not want to work with someone like Wayne. What Yamaha does, however, really has no effect on what Kanstul is doing as far as I can see. So in case anyone is wondering, I really have no ax to grind. I just don't understand why these discussions about the Kanstul Bergeron model need to be derailed everytime. And I do find it annoying, becasue I AM Picky about getting facts straight.