Getting a big orchestral sound in the upper register.

Boy meets Horn · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:34 pm Post subject:

I am the principal trumpet player in my high school orchestra and I was wondering how i could get a bigger darker sound in the upper register. I am currently playing on a Yamaha 16D mouthpiece which is like a 1 1/2 with a deeper cup and I don't want to switch to an even deeper mouthpiece. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Everyone wants to be the hero but no one wants to slay the dragon (practice).

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tcutrpt · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:45 pm Post subject:

The thing that helped me the most was having to do it every day in orchestra. It gradually gets easier. Make sure you aren't overblowing the horn. The most important quality in your orchestral sound is centeredness that projects very well. Don't do too much too soon. Gradually as you get stronger, you can increase the core to the sound without harming the projection. I would also warn against trying to achieve a dark sound. The trumpet's upper register is naturally very brilliant sounding. Listen to Phil Smith or any of the greats play. Their sound is brilliant first and foremost. I hope this helps some.
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Tal Katz · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:50 pm Post subject:

Yeah ! We're not trombone players !
We are trumpet players !
And I wont mention a name

Cheers,
Tal Katz,
Young Israel Philharmonic

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject:

Listen to and copy Bud Herseth's sound!!!

Phil Smith is also a good recommendation!
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J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

trumpetmike · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:07 am Post subject:

Hit the practice rooms, work on long flowing exercises that take you into your upper register. Aim to keep the sound as open as possible. If this is done daily, you should find that the range you are sounding "full" on will improve and extend over time.

As ever, there is no real shortcut, you've just got to put in the hours

Bugleboy21 · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:13 am Post subject:

A yammie 16D already has a good, deep sound (at least for me). You always want to be careful about going too dark. What happens when a conductor keeps requesting more from the trumpets? Chances are (although he may not realize it), that he's not hearing the brilliant overtones produced by fortissimo trumpet. Now there's a difference in having colorful overtones and being just plain shrill. It comes with the amount of fundamental tone. When playing orchestral music, you need to be able to produce any amount of frequencies out of the horn, as the maestro requests.

Conversly, if you have a maestro that constantly gives you the hand, he is probably more struck by the harshness of a note's attack than the shear volume that it's played at. That's why they look up suddenly from the violins when you play something that is "too loud." It's alot like a gunshot or car backfire...you just have to look at where it came from!

_________________
SSG Laurence Dean
US Army TRADOC Band
Fort Monroe, VA
You have to be a S.M.A.T. B.oy to transpose well! -William Vacchiano

308WIN · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:47 pm Post subject:

Even though this probably isn't what you want to hear, but keep practicing. Properly. Don't rush things. When practicing "balls out" excerpts rest as much as you play (a valuable lesson taught to me by Gould and Gekker). Always balance your practice too. If you have a long Orch reh. with something rediculous like Shotakovich 7, go home and play some very soft tongue and slurred etudes. On the opposite if you have a real sleeper rehearsal of mostly Mozart Piano Concerti, go home and blow down some walls. Balance is the key. Be patient, and get lessons from a good teacher. I can't emphasize enough that picking a certain teacher just because he's "convenient" or "close" is not a good thing (especially if you have plans to continue into college etc.). Go with the very best you can afford. And very importantly, DON'T GET HUNG UP ON EQUIPMENT!!!! Play with what you got for now.

HTH
Rich

Ricetrpt · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:32 pm Post subject:

Just a hint that has helped me lately (both with openess in the upper register, and keeping core in the lower):

James Stamp said, "Think up as you play down, and think down as you play up". Thinking down as you ascend in register keeps the embouchure, airstream, and throat more open. Thinking up as you descend in the register keeps you from giving to much away in the low register, causing you to go flat and lose the core of your sound. Give it a shot, it's good stuff.

loudog · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:14 pm Post subject:

Man, that's a great way to put it...I agree with this 100%. I've never quite thought of it like that before!

Louie

PC · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:04 am Post subject:

Yes the Stamp thing works wonders on bad habits like over doing conscious lip control (tightening too much going up and releasing it all for downwards movement).

Another way of puting it that helps with attacking strong notes up there is to think low note but higher dynamic then written. You thus hit the note with relaxed lips but good air support, giving a richer sound than the typical pinched, worked out lipped high note!!

Pierre

6pk · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:50 am Post subject:

Yep I think the stamp thing is a great approach. Make sure your breathing fully and properly (do some playing with tuba players they're great at it)supporting etc. And listen to as many live performances of great players as you can. I wouldn't worry too much about the mouthpiece, if you like it use it and DON'T lose it. Otherwise Bach 11/4C and 1C are pretty standard.

chip · Regular Member Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 43

Don't stress out about equipment at your age. Just find a good mouthpiece and stick with it. Your Yamaha sounds like it's fine, a 1-1/2 is plenty big for a high school player (maybe too big, some would say).

And forget about the concept of dark and bright. Think, rather, about large and small. You can have a very small, dark sound, or you can have a large dark sound (but they're both not likely to be heard). Conversely, you can have a small bright sound, or a large bright sound. A lot of commercial players cultivate a smallish, bright sound for it's projection. Many good orchestral players strive for a very large, bright sound. This kind of sound has great projection and a liveliness and sparkle that enhance the brass section sound. Besides, you can't really change the timbre of your basic sound concept anyway. You can make yourself sound larger or smaller, but your basic sound concept rarely changes. That's what makes us individuals. If you really want to change your basic sound concept, try listening to only that type of player. It will take a while, but it can change (although it may never sound effortless)
And for my money, the best thing to help sound is good relaxed breathing. Take the air in with a yawn and it will come out relaxed. And your sound will be relaxed. And this is a good thing! good luck! And if you become a great player, please don't take my job.