Courtois on eBay???

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

Does anyone know what model this is and anything else about its playing characteristics or quality?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3702513740&category=16214&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

Nobody knows anything...nuthin'????

SCtrumpet1127 · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:45 am Post subject:

it looks like a decent horn. do u know how old it is? I know Coutois makes really nice flugelhorns.....

Sammy

supercrewdrew · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:55 pm Post subject:

I had a Courtois trumpet similar to that until last year. It played great. It was serial # 6224 so it was about the same age as the one on eBay now. Mine was a large bore (L above the serial #) instead of the medium-large bore on the eBay one.

I bought mine in a pawn shop in LaGrange, GA for $25 back in the early '90's. Didn't know what I had until I found Rich Ita and took it to him. It needed quite a bit of work ($$$) to get it into the condition I desired and, at the time, I didn't want to spend that much money. I decided to put it on eBay and wound up getting $300 for it. I took that $300 and wound up with some Olds horns that are in great shape. My Courtois looked pretty rough but it played great. I played it instead of my '74 Bach Strad model 37 that I've had since 1974.

Kind of wish I still had the Courtois, though. I really miss it and the one on eBay reminds me of my old one.

Andy

edited for spelling
_________________
Olds Ambassador trumpets '53, '63, '66
Olds Ambassador cornets '59, '61
Bach Strad (model 37) '74

[ This Message was edited by: supercrewdrew on 2004-02-10 17:56 ]

Bryan_sop_trumpet · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:22 pm Post subject:

I play on a courtois 'Elite' C/Bb trumpet (and I also have a Courtois Chambord II Cornet) I bought the trumpet new in 1999 and I use it for everything. I think it's a really nice instrument. I play it regularly in a jazz orchestra and a brass quintet and I have done quite a lot of orchestral/chamber music on it.
_________________
Bryan Herman
Trumpet - Disco Inferno
Trumpet - Spanish Harlow Orchestra

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

Well I got it for $380 including shipping. I had a similar vintage cornet from Courtois with the fancy engraving on the ferrules and caps and it was a beautiful looking and playing instrument. I think I got almost this much for the cornet when I sold it. I am still looking for any info as to model and year of manufacture on this horn. Don't be shy.... I let you all know what I got and what I think of it when it arrives. Meanwhile... I can't stop buying trumpets.

supercrewdrew · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:37 pm Post subject:

Sorry, but I forgot to include some info in my earlier post.

When I had my vintage Courtois, I contacted LeBlanc (the American importers of Courtois at the time) and found that the serial number on mine (6224) dated it to between 1946 and 1965. Dave Surber (1-800-558-9421) was the guy I spoke to back in late 2000. I got his number from the following website: http://www.musictrader.com/leblanc.html. There is a different name and number on the website now so maybe the new guy will have more specific info about the serial number dates.
_________________
Olds Ambassador trumpets '53, '63, '66
Olds Ambassador cornets '59, '61
Bach Strad (model 37) '74

supercrewdrew · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:43 pm Post subject:

I e-mailed the owner of this Courtois trumpet that's currently listed on eBay to ask about the serial number. He says he bought it new in 1951 and the serial number is 4898. Thought it might help to have this date and serial number as a reference point.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3704011423&category=16214&sspagename=STRK%3AMEAWA%3AIT&rd=1
_________________
Olds Ambassador trumpets '53, '63, '66
Olds Ambassador cornets '59, '61
Bach Strad (model 37) '74

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

I have been in touch with him as well. Sounds like he has the same horn about 5 years or so older. He is quite a guy actually. No photo because he is working off the local library computer. The trumpet is the one he played when he was with Prez Prado and Stan Kenton. I am impressed. Sounds like a nice horn but I have not seen any photos and so I'm staying off it. Besides, I am not sure how these play. A friend who loves french trumpets and owns several Bessons, a Courtois balanced model and has played several Selmers as well, says the Courtois of this type and age are very underated and great players and well finished. We shall see. kpb

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

Just got the mighty Courtois and I LIKE IT so far, very nice. Beautifully put together. The detail on these horns is ammazing. The valves are numbered 19, 20, 21... and the top and bottom caps are numbered as well. The collars or ferules are embossed. It is a heavy horn. Weighs more than my Olds Ambassadors. The fitting that the third valve finger ring fits in is square on the inside where the adjustable ring inserts, but round on the outside. The way this is made very much reminds me of a G. Le Blanc horn that I owned. All these little details speak quality that I don't see on most new horns.

Valves are silky smooth. The three French made horns ( a Courtois, a LeBlanc and a Selmer) that I have owned from the 40's to 60's era have all hade the smoothest valves. The horn plays dark, but with a bite. Not smokey like my 40's Committee. I gues it is symphonic, but I will see how it plays jazz because, that's what i play. I think it will be great actually. If it plays as well as it is built and looks... I got a deal on a very nice horn. I agree with a friend who really likes these french made trumpets. It is certainly an under rated trumpet.

The one curious think is that the middle valve is marked ML, but the middle valve slide measures about .453. Plays more open than some .459 horns. Looks like a keeper for now. I am not a pro, so my observations are those of an amateur. I am posting them because I was not able to find much on these horns on the internet. Any additional info would always be welcomed. kpb

plp · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject:

Just out of curiousity, how many horns do you have now?

I have a 1927 Courtois C trumpet and I agree about the fit and finish, even though I suspect mine spent many years as a wall hanger, very little valve wear but tons of dings. I refrained from commenting before because this one is not one of my better playing trumpets, but I think it has more to do with the player than the instrument.

montague · New Member Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 5

Does anyone have information that will help me date a Courtois trumpet with the serial number 121? It is NOT a post-World War II instrument.

Thanks

isler · Veteran Member Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 430

Hey live jazz I thought you would be looking for a martin Committee?

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

I was not able to find any site or info on dating Courtois instruments. I did see another trumpet for sale on ebay and emailed the seller. His horn had a number below mine and he had purchased it new in the 50's. Info is sketchy.

How many trumpets do I have... please do not ask. I don't even ask myself. The real problem for me is every time I buy one because "never had one of those" I end up not wanting to resell it. Too many end up being keepers. I will go through cycles where I just clean house. I have a really beautiful Olds LA Ambassador which will stay. A really nice 1949 Committee which I will not sell. I really like the Blessing Artist that I have...actually like 'em both. One is 1939, the other is early 60's. These are great horns and are identical to the Super Artist of Clifford Brown fame, but less fancy and sell for 1/5th the price. Great players, large bore. Anyway, I have too many. But they are all nice.

plp · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:46 pm Post subject:

I only ask because I see you WAY too often on ebay.....I think you have beat me out on a number of auctions, but all is fair, etc. I guess it is because we both like the vintage horns.

And for the record, 32 including the 2 that are still being shipped. Still searching for that pristine one of a kind that everyone else misses.

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

Well... you see me too often, eehhh???... well it does boggle the mind. HHMMMM... 32.... I may have approached that at times, but.... 32. Wow. As I said, as I progress, more of thr trumpets that I buy are keepers and that can get to be troublesome. I'll tell you what I love about ebay. I get to play the vintage horns that my jazz favorites played and not feel as though I have gone broke doing it because I am able to resell and get all or most of the money back. It just takes diligent research, patience and good sense. I like it. Forgot the french made Besson Brevette that just went out for a complete redo. Hey, life is too short to wait 'til I get older. Heck I am older and if not now, when? So, I keep on listening to my jazz favorites, finding out what they play, listen, listen, listen... playplayplay and enjoy recorded (Tomasz Stanko....oooohhhhh aaahhhh) and live jazz. (Hugh Masekela at NO Jazz Fest this year!!... I hope)

Just spent about an hour with the Courtois. Still getting used to it. So smooth to play. Nice horn, not sure if the sound is right for me, but it certainly is a nice trumpet. We shall see.

plp · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:56 am Post subject:

My apologies the the individual who emailed me regarding information on my Courtois C trumpet. I accidentally deleted your email, so I will post the information here and hope you get it. The 1927 date is based on the information I got from the seller I bought it from, and I too could not find a link to vintage Courtois instruments to confirm.
The stampings are as follows; on the bell side of the valve casings it is stamped 4 on the first valve, 5 on the second, and 6 on the third. The second valve also has the serial number 2086, below that 5, and above the SN the Courtois logo.
The bell has a circular stamp marked 'Hors Concours Chicago 1893 St. Louis 1904'. Below that it says ' Grands Prix Lie'ge 1905 Bruxelles 1910 Turin 1911 Geneve 1927' (probably the seller's guess at the age) Below that it says ' Antoine Courtois Brevette Facteur Du Conservetoire National 88.zue Marias Paris'.

SLJ, 32 is the number I have bought, but not the number I presently have. I have sold several, have a few out on loan pending sale, have donated several to the local band programs, and of course, have kept a few. Of the ones I have kept, several are mint condition pieces of junk I would never burden someone else with, but look good. These are off brand such as a Ditson (not Diston, yep, I fell for that one, thought the seller has misspelled it), a Silvetta (looks like it was made by a plumber, great fit and finish, plays like a Bundy) a German made Le Sete (would really appreciate some information on this one, as it looks to be a quality made instrument but came in pieces, so I don't know how it ever played)
The players are my tried and true Victor cornet, my Holton ST-550s (the greatest student line trumpet ever made, IMOHO, in spite of the fact it is a glorified Colligiate) , a Super Colligiate cornet, a Conn 12-B, the abovementioned C trumpet, a Getzen frumpet, 3 Ambassadors, and a soon to be arriving Connstellation that I hope will put an end to my buying addiction/ midlife crisis.

montague · New Member Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 5

plp/Heavyweight member..........I emailed a question to you regarding the serial number a bell markings on your 1920s Antoine Courtois C trumpet...............I'm trying to date a Courtois I own......SN 121

montague · New Member Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 5

I spoke too soon PLP! Just read your post...............thanks. I'll now read it and see your info leads to me to a conclusion............thanks

montague · New Member Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 5

Regarding Antoine Courtois trumpets: the 1927 Geneve marking on the bell indicates the instrument was made after 1927...........when? I don't know. The 88 rue Des Marais St. Martin address on the bell preceded the company's 8 rue De Nancy address found on late-1940s, 1950s trumpets. Information regarding the Courtois company's activity in the early 20th Century seems to be unrecorded. The present Courtois website provides some history but no help in dating horns. My Courtois trumpet SN 5504 is a "Balanced" model.....the valve cluster is set further forward than the "normal" configuration......similar to an Olds Recording......WITHOUT the off-set second valve. Several people have suggested that this model Courtois was made by Selmer..........Selmer began making the so-called "balanced" trumpet about 1933.........in fact, Selmer offered a "Louis Armstrong Special"...........Courtois SN 5504 is a large bore (.470) instrument.......has a "dark" sound.