Help me to understand bell size

[camel lips]

I did a search here and now I am more confused than ever.

What benefits do you receive from going to a smaller bore?

I saw on another thread that several posters suggested come back players or students should not get a large bore.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[ This Message was edited by: camel lips on 2004-02-19 08:14 ]

[_Don Herman]

On 2004-02-19 08:13, camel lips wrote:
* I did a search here and now I am more confused than ever.

The beginning of all knowledge, yes?

In the following, I am generalizing mightily, so please don't start the "specifics game" on me... I'm also going to (try to) limit the length of the post, but apologies in advance anyway...

FWIW, bell size and bore size are not really related. Bore size is typically measured at the 2nd valve, or entrance to the third, and is roughly the average value of the cylindrical (non-varying, vs. conical, or tapered) tubing in your trumpet. What you think of as bell size might be covering two general categories: the taper (or flare) and the final size. The latter is what you get when you put your trumpet's bell on a piece of paper and draw around it. Measure the circumference to you'll get the bell "size". The flare is usually described as "fast" or "slow", relating to how quickly the tubing from the first valve expands. A fast taper, such as the WT's bell, generally provides a darker sound. A slower flare, such as the Bach 37, gives a middle of the road sound. A lead trumpet might have a very slow taper, so that virtually all the flare is near the end of the bell, providing brighter sound and greater (and more directional) sound projection.

* What benefits do you receive from going to a smaller bore?

"Benefits" is a debatable term, but the general rule is that the smaller the bore, the higher the perceived resistance. This can make it easier to "peck" around notes and may increase endurance. But, other folk prefer a larger bore, or more accurately less resistance, as the "tighter" horns "back up" on them and kill their endurance and technique. The larger bores allow them to really sing out. It's a very personal thing that you must decide for yourself.

I suggest going to the Schilke Loyalist site and reading the article on "The Irrelevance of Bore Size". There are also numerous articles/posts on the impact bell flare has upon sound quality there and elsewhere, including many here on TH.

* I saw on another thread that several posters suggested come back players or students should not get a large bore.

Bummer. Guess I should sell my WT and NTC. The large bores can take more air. Whether that's good or bad depends upon you. In my experience, my WT plays fine softly and with no more air than my old Bach 37. I suspect a large bore will accentuate inefficient playing habits. A student who has not developed good air support will have a harder time with a more open (not just a large bore) horn. Student horns make it easier to play the trumpet, but harder to play it well, imho.

* Thanks in advance for your help.

You're welcome, though I doubt I provided much!

All the best (music!) - Don

Opinions expressed are my own, offered without substantiative support of any kind, and should be read and analyzed with a very large salt lick block. If you feel the need to violently disagree, I suggest you carefully unplug your computer, carry it gently to the roof, and toss it off.
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[Vin DiBona]

Where do we start with this question?
I guess the first place to start is to say that bore size doesn't always mean a large bore with be more free blowing than a medium large bore or medium bore. Most all of us here have had experience with all sorts of bore sizes blowing "differently" that what they should - a large bore felt tight and a medium bore felt open.
For example, for years I played a Burbank Benge 5X, which was (arguably) the most open of the medium large Benges of that era. In actuality, it was a tighter blow than the medium large Bachs of that era that I tried. The Benge was a .460 bore, the Bachs were .459 bore.
When I went to a Bach trumpet, it was a large bore at .462. Not much of a measurement difference, but because this horn had a 43 pipe and 72 bell, it was wide open and extremely free blowing.
Something to remember is all trumpets start "small" at the receiver and get "large" at the bell. It is what is done in the area between the two ends is what matters.
Look up Jim Donaldson's Schilke Loyalist website. Schilke was revolutionary in making trumpets with various bore/bell combination. Large bores with medium bells, medium bores with large bells and all sorts of the in between.
It is a great website and is not only informative, it is a fun read too.
I know there will be some excellent posts on this topic here, but you can start at the above website and get a nice education.
I believe comeback players and students should have something to "lean" against and should use a horn with at least - to the individual player's liking - moderate resistance. It is of the upmost importance that there be a balance between the player, mouthpiece and horn and once this balance is found, playing becomes much easier.

[camel lips]

Generalizing was what I was hoping for.You both did a good job with your post.

Anyone else care to take a stab at it?



[ This Message was edited by: camel lips on 2004-02-19 08:48 ]