"Fine tuning" the Roll In and Roll Out

[LeeC]

This post is for those cats who've experienced some gains from either the Roll In or the Roll Out and have started incorporating it into their regular playing.

Before going on, these are my experiences as i've observed inside of what appears to me to be the realm of BE. If anyone feels that I've gone outside the BE realm just remember that these are my thoughts. Am only trying to be helpful.

There, that oughta keep the dogs off me...


1. Thoughts for those who's embouchures are predominantly "Roll In",

A. If you're getting some outstanding range but having trouble getting sound down low try using very little pressure on your lower lip as you play a low C or something. To do this bring the mouthpiece at an upward angle until the lower lip almost starts to lose air as the focus of the contact shifts to the upper lip. Sooner or later the lower tone should speak well. Practice...

B. If you're getting good range but having flexibility and volume issues consider experimenting with a larger inner rim dimension on your mouthpiece. Example, if you play a 7C try a 3C or a 1C.


Thoughts for those who play predominantly "Roll Out",

1. Let's say you're starting to pop some nice high F's as a result of recent Roll Out pedal tone embouchure manipulation but find yourself jamming the mouthpiece too hard as you play high tones and/or you have trouble playing high notes softly. Fix this by applying more roll in to the high notes and practice your upper register more softly.

Am expecting you guys to jump all over me for this post. Just trying to be helpful. Can't see how anyone would mind but it's happened before. Trying to be careful.

I've recently found line 1A above to be tremendously helpful not only at acheiving better lower register but at improving register connection and high range volume. This includes powerful three octave arpeggios starting at low C to room rocking double C's

Good luck.

Should I stop casting my swine among the pearls?

[_dcstep]

[Larrios]

Hi Lee!

Thanks for your post! I find your posts interesting and I warmly welcome your thoughts to the forum, eventhough they might not always be strictly about BE. You already provided your own disclaimer, so no hard feelings.

Ko

[trumpetjunkie]

We often talk about the "conservatory/orchestral/conservative/whateveryouwannacallthem" people being stuck in their old ways condemning all other methods and never experimenting outside the box... lets not be guilty of the same thing with BE. Truth tested will only come out stronger. If Jeff hadn't have experimented and did all the wacky stuff that most people laughed at... we wouldn't have B.E. Thanks for the "outside the box" insight Lee!
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[LeeC]

What some folks may not realiize is that I am very concerned about maintaining the integrity of BE and staying within the scope of the text. However if I see what appears to be gold on the side of the highway i'm gonna pull over, stop and pick it up even if it's against the traffic rules. I'd hope y'all would do the same.

Naturally the concern is with newcomers to BE who may already have their plates full from reading the text. Wouldn't want them to get too far absorbed in matters unrelated or confusing. That's one reason you need a moderator.

Used to post over at the Reinhardt forum regularly. Some of those cats have some neat insight but as I dwelved into matters important to me I kept running further askew from the rather inflexible framework of the forum. Spent more time posting disclaimers than questions or analysis. So I gave up. There's still some fascinating players and analytical minds over there. They just don't post that much.

It's important to remember that the word Moderator comes from the word "moderate". I know Jeff is just an old softy, but other important charactors here might want to loosen up a tad. Not a lot mind you, just a bit. It appears to me that we are "Guardians" of the forum as opposed to "Guards". A guardian permits flexibilty for the student allowing individual differences and unique personal growth. A guard on the other hand is overly rigid and zealous. Limits potential without ever intending it.

There I've done it again, strayed from my own topic 180 degrees and probably broken even more rules of engagement.

Trumpetjunkie and Leesbrass agreeing? Maybe there is hope for all of us.

[mcamilleri]

Well, I actually agree with some of the points, mainly because they have worked for me, which is not to say that they will work for everyone. BE is based on what Jeff calls universal principals - they work for everyone.

Regarding mouthpieces, I recently shifted from the bach 10.5 size (0.63) to the 5C size (0.66) and Yamaha 14a4a, and my playing overall has improved. I could play on the 10.5, and the smaller 620M, but found attacks and flexibility a bit dodgy. I am much more secure on the larger diameter. I tried up to a 1C, but the 5C overall fitted me best. Since BE I can play insanely small mouthpiece diameters, but I play best on around a 5C at the moment. Works for me, may not work for you.

Please note that in the book Jeff states that he no longer uses the small mouthpiece trick to get his students to focus - he relies on the BE exercises to do that. Please don't try to class BE as a small mouthpiece embouchure, as SuperChops has become.

Michael
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[_dcstep]

I never suggested going to incredibly small mpcs, I just said that I thought it was backwards to think about going to larger mpcs in implimenting BE. Leesbrass was advocating something as large as a 1C. That's fine for some. With a roll in embouchure I can play almost any diameter and I find myself far less sensitive to this parameter.

Now Leesbrass is sending me PMs with much pontificating and ending with a pithy "A pessimist is a person who when he hears opportunity knocking, complains about the noise". I'm not sure what he's trying to say.

I'm open to Leesbrass' experiences, but he shouldn't get all defensive if we suggest to newbies that they should read and follow Jeff's book as their primary source of BE knowledge.

Best regards,

Dave
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