Playing with Pressure

trptplyr15 · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:23 am Post subject:

I would like to know things i can do to play with less pressure, in all aspects of playing. I play with too much pressure all the time, after warming up i have a ring on my lips, any advice would be greatly appricated. Thank you

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

When you shake hands with someone just as strong as they do, you feel no squeeze. If you are week you feel the pressure. Firm up the push from the air going forward, notice the corners coming in towards the teeth. Work for a better pucker, push from the air, less pressure, correct tongue position (sound tells you all this).

The four "P's" from David Hickman.

I read the hand shake analogy from John Marchiando.

badebop · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:54 am Post subject:

Try to be conscious of putting most of the pressure on the bottom lip. Be sure your upper and lower lip are aligned with each other for maximum buzz. Leadpipe buzzing will help you with this. Check out Brian Scriver's website.

Tom

_bugleboy · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:06 pm Post subject:

Use all the pressure you need and don't worry about it!

Don't obsess about pressure. When you are trying to find ways to improve your playing, pressure is the LAST thing to be concerned with.

Horn of Praise · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:08 pm Post subject:

Also, try playing the horn without using the right hand "octave key", otherwise known as the pinky hook.

I have seen pro-players (upper register guys) holding the horn (with their left hand) around the bottom of the valve cluster, without using the third-valve slide ring. This may feel awkward at first, but it will reduce a "death grip" on the horn.

I hope this helps. All the best.

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PAUL NELSON - Eclipse White Lightning / Getzen Eterna 900 Classic / Monette B4LD / Blue Juice

[ This Message was edited by: Horn of Praise on 2004-03-07 15:11 ]

_trumpetgod_02 · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:19 pm Post subject:

Once again,

I'm finding my self in complete agreeance with Charly. But of all the things to worry about, I would have to say that pressure is the least of your concerns. Find what is going to help you get what you want out of your playing and then do it. Don't over analyze things, as that will only complicate everything. Just forget about this poblem here and that problem there and play the horn. Once everything lines up you'll be just fine.

Nick
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www.trumpetherald.com

_dcstep · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject:

Good Lord Nick, you're fully in the Charley camp!!! The world is upside down.

Pressure can KILL your playing. I used to use tons of pressure and sound great, BUT I "had to" play every day and my range hardly ever went above E over high-C. Playing by sound alone can be a big mistake.

I still use pressure, but it's under control and I have other tools to get me the range and endurance I need. Had I not learned to reduce pressure (so much so that the callouses have gone away) I'd still be stuck in the same old box.

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

_bugleboy · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:12 pm Post subject:

Had I not learned to reduce pressure (so much so that the callouses have gone away)

The pressure isn't what caused the callouses.

Hero of the Day · Regular Member Joined: 28 Feb 2004 Posts: 96 Location: NC

Pressure is awful. It will screw you up. The less pressure the better. ALWAYS minimize pressure, ALWAYS. Try to reduce it in every register. Obviously some pressure is needed and you gotta do what you gotta do, but always be conscious of trying to use less, that will only help you.

Good ways to reduce pressure (I'm no expert as I have the same problem):
1.Practice some stuff free buzzing - make sure its the same embochure as the one you use with the horn though
2.Grip the horn differently, as mentioned earlier in the post
3.Be conscious of your elbows and peridoically while playing try to wave them up and down as well as your shoulders and really your whole body, try to keep it flowing and relaxed, Jens Lindeman taught me that one.
4.Just do a bunch of research on the net about trumpet playing in general, it will def help and theres tons of stuff out there, like this wonderful forum

You'll probably find that most sites out there about trumpet playing will advise against pressure and say to constantly try and reduce it. Good luck, dont hurt yourself but I'm sure you're alright.

[ This Message was edited by: Hero of the Day on 2004-03-07 17:01 ]

Brewblue1 · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject:

To expand a bit on what Dave said near the top of this thread....

Pressure is necessary. Without the seal caused by the proper amount of pressure, trumpet playing is NOT POSSIBLE! Take a look at a picture of Doc or Maynard playing high. Are you going to tell me that they arent using ANY pressure? I dont think so.

Pressure is only bad if the 'pucker' is not equal to the task. (Insert said handshake analogy here) If the pucker is not strong enough to tolerate the needed amount of pressure, then, yes, the pressure will cause damage.

Again, it is NOT POSSIBLE to play with 'no pressure'.

To develop your pucker, work on lip bends or pedal tones. If you have any questions, consult the David Hickman "Trumpet Lessons" books, or the Jimmy Stamp method, or the Claude Gordon method, or any of the several other methods that talk about embouchure development. Also consult your local trumpet teacher or player for live advice, as none of us here on TH can see, OR HEAR how you play!

As for the ring on your lips, its perfectly natural. If you have other reasons to suspect that your pucker is not equal to the pressure you're using, like restricted range, poor sound quality, etc. thats understandable. I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that you need to use less pressure just by seeing a ring on your chops. Wear it proudly! Its a badge of honor that all trumpet players wear!

Best of luck...

John
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John Marchiando
University of New Mexico
New Mexico Philharmonic
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Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

Pressure does not cause the callouses. I think it has to do with a "body chemistry" type thing.

I've had them my entire playing career and I don't think that I use any more that average pressure.

Changing your "grip" is not a wise thing to do. It will change your entire "playing feel".

Chris

Nonsense Eliminator · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:41 pm Post subject:

Pressure is necessary.

Excess pressure is not. However, it is not a problem in and of itself. It is a symptom of otherwise inefficient mechanics, for which we attempt to compensate by pressing harder. The best way to solve this problem is not simply deciding to use less pressure. If you kick out one crutch, it is a good bet that you will find a new one to rely on instead. Learning to play more effeciently, by whatever means suits you, will automatically result to using a more optimal amount of pressure.

_dcstep · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject:

_dcstep · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:43 pm Post subject:

NE hit in on the head. Excess pressure is a symtom.

You can't just decide to use less pressure. (I tried that for decades). You need to address fundemental flaws in your playing. When you fix the weaknesses, the excess pressure will go away. There are many ways to address these flaws, several mentioned in this thread. I actually used eliments of Caruso, Cat Anderson and pencil. Lately I've progressed even further, thanks to Balanced Embouchure.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Very interesting thread, and for me John and NE seem to make the most sense.

There's no such thing as no pressure.

There is something wrong with excess pressure.

Learning to play with the most efficient fundamentals possible is the solution.

I agree with Charles as well!! Don't get hung up over the problem, focus on the solution.
If I've interpreted Charles correctly.

trptplyr15 · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject:

THank you guys so much, i will really take what all of you had to say to heart, its nice that i can come here and get answers from people who know what they are doing. Again thank you very much!

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Run this by Keith Johnson when you get there. He's one of the greatest trumpet teachers anywhere.

_bugleboy · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:19 pm Post subject:

I know what caused the callouses and I know why they went away.

Then you know it wasn't the pressure that caused them.

********************************

On another note: it is totally unreasonable to assume a player would ever use excessive pressure. Why would someone ever use MORE pressure than they need in order to play. That doesn't make sense. It makes sense that a player will use the amount of pressure that he needs in order to play, and only that amount. If that is the case, then he ISN'T using excessive pressure, he's using the amount necessary for him to play. If he didn't use it he wouldn't be able to play, so how can something that is necessary be excessive? Excessive would mean MORE than he needs to play, but no one ever does that. They always use just the right amount to make the horn respond and when it does they hold at that pressure level.

Another question might be, is it POSSIBLE to use more pressure than is necessary to play? It doesn't work for me.

Nonsense Eliminator · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject:

Charly --

I think the issue here is what is meant by "excess".

For the most part, I agree that people will tend to use the amount of pressure they need to do what they're trying to do at any given time. However, I think that it is possible to rely too much on pressure. That is, the person is using the amount he needs, but he needs to use too much.

_bugleboy · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject:

NE writes:

I think the issue here is what is meant by "excess".

For the most part, I agree that people will tend to use the amount of pressure they need to do what they're trying to do at any given time.

I would go further and say not just "for the most part" but for every single playing time and in all cases that if a player successfully executes a part, he is using the amount of pressure he needs for that part.

However, I think that it is possible to rely too much on pressure. That is, the person is using the amount he needs, but he needs to use too much.

Absolutely! But if a player relies heavily on pressure and that pressure is removed you end up with no player. The pressure has to stay and the muscles have to learn how to do what the pressure has been accomplishing so that the pressure doesn't have to do it all. Then the pressure automatically lightens up since no one would ever play (perhaps couldn't play) with more pressure than they actually need, i.e., excessive pressure.

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Charles Raymond

[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2004-03-08 00:10 ]