50 yr old Bach Mercedes

trumpetplayer87 · Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:55 am Post subject:

Hello all,

Someone I know just bought a Bach Mercedes. Does anyone here have any information at all about them? It's supposed to be about 50 yrs old, with a few stuck slides. It says New York 67 on it. What's a Mercedes worth in fair condition? (ballpark figure)
Thanks!

Bonnie

bgwbold · Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:36 am Post subject:

Mercedes was a lower level horn to the Strad, along with some other models like the Mercury and Apollo. Still, sometimes these models sell for high prices because they are old and were made by V Bach. I don't understand how they would command such high prices, especially considering what you could get for that money in an upper level Olds, etc. However, I have never physically seen or played one, and maybe they are nice horns. I have always been curious why they sell for so much. Maybe someone can offer more info on that angle.

Mike

KevinInGeorgia · Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:29 am Post subject:

I've got an older mercedes (made around 1967) as my back up horn.. It's a wonderful horn & takes all the same parts as an ML Strad.. I actually use a Bach rounded turning slide in it.. Many of the Older Mercedws are Exactly the same as Strads.. I've been told & see some info on different websites that V. Bach would take Strad Parts & make them into a Merceds to make more horns to brign in more money.. A lot of the Mercedes do have minor flaws in them so they are basically flawed Strads where as some of them are Perfect Strad parts & Bach needed to sell some more horns at a cheaper prioce.. I know there was some Discussion on TPIN.. Should be in the Archives of TPIN..

Riffdawg borrowed mine for a while.. maybe he will chime in on it..

Kevin
_________________
Kevin M.
Sounds of Sawnee Community Band

“Heroes turn into martyrs on this instrument.” ~ William Vacchiano

Tim80 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 1415

I've read where the New York and Mt. Vernon Bach Mercedes were basically a Bach Strad second. So it is quite possible that the horn may be quite a player. You can doa google search and dig up more info.Check out the following links.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=bach+mercedes&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=dr_trpt-spamfree-2105992320160001%40p8-term3.scican.net&rnum=3

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=new+york+bach+mercedes+group:rec.music.makers.trumpet&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.music.makers.trumpet&selm=4888-39D407C8-41%40storefull-118.iap.bryant.webtv.net&rnum=1
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All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire

veldkamp · Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:11 pm Post subject:

I have a Mercedes (M bore ) from 1941. It plays very well. It's a cheaper version of a Bach Strad but plays evenly well. As mentioned before, Bach used Strad parts to make them to sell more trumpets under de Strad price. Mostly they missing the 3rd valve gide and the are raw brass. Mine was made for the army.

trumpetplayer87 · Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:38 am Post subject:

I called the first guy I know and he said it was a pro horn that's worth quite a bit. The second guy said it's only a student horn, he wouldn't pay much for it. The second guy deals horns but wasn't the least bit interested in it. He's a excellent trumpet player as well and knows a lot about horns.

Anyhow, my aunt got it at such a great price I'm sure she could get well over what she paid for it if she decided to sell it. It may have even inspired to start playing herself! We may have converted a euphonium!

Thanks for the info. I'll probably get a chance to play on it this July.

Bonnie

Mlockman · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:33 am Post subject:

Very interesting discussion on the Bach Mercedes and Mercury trumpets. Any deeper insights or proof from the Bach authorities?
BTW I love this form.
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Bach Strad 37/25
Bach Strad LT 43 /25
Bach Strad C 229 25H CL,
Couesnon Flugelhorn 1970
Warburton WCC mouthpiece
Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia
AFM

KevinInGeorgia · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:48 am Post subject:

I've owned both Mercedes & Mercury models..

I owned my Mecury model when I was in College ( 1955 I think, It Got stolen out of my car) was a M bore horn but played much bigger, was a good lead horn. Looking at it reminded me a lot of the Pre-War Bessons.. Especially the way the bell was made..( Flat bell rim) It's a LOT different than playing a Strad.. Closest modern thing I can relate it to is a Yamaha Z horn.. (I've played 2 of them so not a lot to compare)

My Mercedes is my Back-up Horn.. Plays like a VERY good Strad 37.. I like a very open horn so I added a Rounded tuning slide.. I would put it up against any Bach Strad 37.. The lacquer was coming off when I got it so I stripped it off & like it Raw Brass.. The slides are the biggest problem, The 3rd slide doesn’t have a Stop rod so it doesn’t slide as easy as a Strad slide.. I got it for less than 200 off of Ebay..

Ask any specific questions & I'll try to answer..

Kevin
_________________
Kevin M.
Sounds of Sawnee Community Band

“Heroes turn into martyrs on this instrument.” ~ William Vacchiano

Trptbenge · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:25 am Post subject:

I have an old ITG Journal that has a photocopy of a letter from Vincent Bach to a friend that states that the Mercedes was the EXACT same horn as a Strad - just marketed under a different name. This, does not include the later Mercedes II horns.

Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference!

musiclifeline · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:30 am Post subject:

I have a 1958 Mt. Vernon Bach Mercedes cornet, and it has a 3rd slide stop rod. It's an excellent horn in excellent shape. Holds its own against my friend's Bach Strad 37 cornet from the early 70s. I thought about selling it for awhile, but the sound is so rich and dark that it'd be tough to get me to part with it. I wish I played it more, but I haven't gotten around to getting a matching rim mouthpiece (with my Gr65MS trumpet piece, that is) for it... all I have is an old Mt. Vernon Bach 7C and a New York Bach 6C, which sound great but are uncomfortable for me to switch to. (sorry, got off-topic)

They're like any other type of horn -- a great one is great, a dog is a dog.