Small Sound on C Trumpet

blasticore · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:12 pm Post subject:

A guy at school recently got a new C trumpet. It's pretty much standard, 239 bell, 25 pipe. Like the person I am, I felt inclined to try the horn, and was playing Promenade before he even got done with the word "okay". I noticed something while playing that made me think. My sound is actually quite small on C. I sound much more like I'm playing an Eb, or larger sounding picc. I didn't experience this so much when trying out several 239/25R combination horns, but would a bell change perhaps make more of a difference in the sound than the pipe in my case? (Note, I haven'tr tried the H pipe, so feel free to comment on that one)
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dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

How much C trumpet playing do you do each day?

Zeusfan · Regular Member Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 87

Even if you find the perfect "C" trumpet, you have to make a "C" trumpet sound like a Bb. It doesn't have to necessarily fell like one, but you have to fool everyone listening. I think the more you play a "C" the more comfortable you become and you can manipulate the horn into playing the way you want it to.

Zeusfan · Regular Member Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 87

Even if you find the perfect "C" trumpet, you have to make a "C" trumpet sound like a Bb. It doesn't have to necessarily fell like one, but you have to fool everyone listening. I think the more you play a "C" the more comfortable you become and you can manipulate the horn into playing the way you want it to.

Zeusfan · Regular Member Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 87

If you read the same line twice, you need a new pescription in your glasses.

Sorry!
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blasticore · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:45 pm Post subject:

dbacon,

Honestly, it sees the light of day twice or thrice a week. Once for my lesson (Tuesday), maybe again near Thursday or Friday, then on Sunday for orchestra.
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mafields627 · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject:

In order to obtain the C trumpet sound, you need to do a lot of playing on it -- 1) To learn the tendencies of your horn (you WILL have to use alternate fingerings) and 2) to learn _how_ to play a C Trumpet, to obtain the C trumpet sound. In my case, having a professional orchestra player blasting Promenade about 6 inches from my head helps.

I've found that C takes a lot more air than my Bb. I've never played a straight 25 pipe, as mine has the 25R. This is a longer pipe, designed to make the horn closer to a Bb.

In short, temporarily eliminating any possible equipment issues, don't be afraid to fill up the horn. In orchestra, is usually only on or two to a part balancing the rest of the orchestra. Blow! (when called for!!)
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badebop · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject:

I'm confused. If you want to your C trumpet to sound like a Bb...why not just use a Bb?! Why is orchestra music written for C trumpets if a Bb sound is needed? I'M CONFUSED!!

JGulyas · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:23 pm Post subject:

All you guys must have total crap for C trumpets (Bach

. Other than that, no false fingerings (ie, no using 1-2 for top space E). You've already spent your money on finding that (almost) perfect C horn, now spend a couple extra and get it tweaked. This, I'm sure, will end your false fingering trends.

This nest one is one where most people stuck in the land of B-Flatia will never really get. "I'm confused. If you want to your C trumpet to sound like a Bb...why not just use a Bb?! Why is orchestra music written for C trumpets if a Bb sound is needed? I'M CONFUSED!!" Here's the reason...it's one of the unwritten global paradoxes (paradocies?) of the orchestral trumpet world. Welcome to our hell, a hell we will never tire of; transposing to live and living to transpose. I wouldn't trade it for the ease of a Bb day in and day out.

John
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_dcstep · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:51 am Post subject:

I don't know if this is still the case, but I understand that London-based symphonic players tended to use Bb trumpets and/or Eb/D trumpets and hardly ever used a C. When you think of that, it makes a lot of sense, given that the transpositions will be pretty "natural" with one of those horns. The use of C in the USA may have grown out of the desire for a different sound.

I'm just repeating some things I've heard, but not validated, so anyone more in the know is welcome to set me straight.

Dave
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Mlockman · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:39 am Post subject:

I agree with the comment why should A "C" trumpet sound like a B-flat. I use a C because the sound fits the orchestral situation. I use a B-flat because the sound fits the situation. Someday I hope to own a D/E flat for a sound to fit the situation.
Transposition is sometimes easier on a "C" but the easy out is not always the correct way.

On some orchestral pieces do we need to copy the sound of a natural trumpet? Isn't that what the composer had in mind? Does the "C" trumpet sound get closer to the natural trumpet?

Much food for thought. Just my opinion.
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6pk · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:58 am Post subject:

Just blow it like a Bb!!!

KevinInGeorgia · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:09 am Post subject:

I have to agree with John..It may take some tweaking but a good C you can play with out all the alternate fingerings.. I LOVE my Bach 238 C but as all my horns are it's been tweaked.

I agree, why play C if it sounds like a Bb.. Can I make my C sound like a Bb: YES.. I can change the Cup/Backbore of my Mouthpiece & sound like a Bb, but I enjoy the sound of my C. I play the C for 2 reasons, 1)I Love the sound of it, 2) Ease of Transposing from C.

Use the right Horn for the situation.. The opera I'm playing in I brought both of my Bb's because they each sound diffrent & I was looking for a particular sound..

To answer Blasticores's Question: 1) Spend more time on C.. It has a different feel/sound to it.. 2) Experment with different Mouthpiece Cups & Backbores to achieve the Sound you want.. If you want a ”Bigger” sound I would try a mouthpiece with a larger throat & maybe a larger backbore..

Kevin

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[ This Message was edited by: KevinInGeorgia on 2004-04-21 10:12 ]

mafields627 · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:34 am Post subject:

_dcstep · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 am Post subject:

I see and hear a lot of world-class trumpeters around DFW. One thing I've noticed is almost all of them use alternative fingerings very often. Also, their intonation approaches perfection and their horns resonate fully and freely on EVERY note.

These guys trade around "special" horns that have great sound (usually Bachs, tweaked Bachs or tweaked Yamahas). If you're in their circle you can buy one of these horns for $1100 to $1500 used, but none of these horns is "perfect", requiring no adjustment to play in tune. All require adjustments to play in tune, so far as I see. The focus is on sound.

I wouldn't get caught up on searching for a C trumpet (or Bb for that matter) that plays in tune to a degree that requires no adjustment. Instead I'd focus on one that resonates very well and is close enough in intonation that adjustments can be made to play each note correctly. Listen behind the horn AND out front and make a choice based on sound.

Dave
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tcutrpt · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:22 am Post subject:

Well, if you want to get technical, Georges Mager, Herseth's teacher, was the one that turned Bud on to the C trumpet.

Also, it's been my experience that even though you may be able to play Es and E-flats in tune without false fingers, they are a lot more resonant when false fingerings are used.

Just some thoughts.
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