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Stamps Lips Bends


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trumpetherald
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Joined: 25 Oct 2001
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Location: Bloomington, IN

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boyde is fantastic. I would strongly recommend that you touch base with him if you're going to be in LA.

TD
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ComposeAl
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Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ole,

Thank you for the wonderful Hakan Hardenberger discussion of Jimmy Stamp's materials and all of the other extremely informative stuff. His analysis and reducing playing to two building blocks, vibration and air I think is quite correct.

I also loved his comment about the fact that so many performers seem to not use their ears. My music theory students hand in some of the worst stuff that I find hard to believe that they actually played. I've worked with trumpeters that sound so unmusical that I wonder if they're listening to themselves.

Anyway, great stuff. I'll print it and keep it.

Thank you,

Al
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Atomlinson
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Posts: 327
Location: Somerset England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting that HH uses "lip bends" as the first part of his routine. In the "Warm-ups+Studies" book they appear much later.

Also, a number of Stamp's ex-students like Hakan Hardenberger, Bert Truax, Malcolm McNab (and possibly Boyde Hood) whilst advocating the use of 'mouthpiece buzzing' appear to have abandoned the 'lip buzzing' part of Stamp's teaching.


Andrew Tomlinson

[ This Message was edited by: Atomlinson on 2004-08-25 14:34 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Atomlinson on 2004-08-25 15:56 ]
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oj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew,

I've seen the same. The one that perhaps uses it (?) of Jimmy's students, Roy Poper, says the following in his book (published by Balquhidder Music):

For years I tried to use too much force of wind to accomplish this exercise. When I relaxed and concentrated on the correct form, i.e.; corners together, only enough lip tension to start the first note, steady feeling of crescendo on that "Too" etc., steady progress on range began to occur.
(page 8 - the exercise he talks about is lip buzzing)

For years, he says. Hm... not even he, a Stamp student, did get the lip buzz going easily.

My own experience with lip buzzing is that it can be used as a "tool" in the beginning. Then later it can be skipped.

Bending, done the way HH describe it, is IMO much better.

Ole
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ComposeAl
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
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Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ole and all,

When I'm in better shape it seems like the buzzing is less important for me too, while the bending is
helpful not just in the warmup, but off and on throughout my practice session. I'm doing a lot of buzzing now
to expose vibration problems. As I am playing more and more, I'm getting more responsive buzzing
and the buzzing seems to help my lip get more responsive. Playing in tune on the mouthpiece is also challenging.

I noticed a new bad habit creeping in and that is playing on a dry lip. It's strange because that has never
been problem before. It's difficult to buzz effectively with a dry lip and that's the extra benefit I'm
enjoying from the buzzing.

When I studied with Jimmy, he took me very high, E's, F's, and G's, on the mouthpiece followed
by going down to very low pedal tones. I'm doing more pedals now and they seem rejuvenating to my lip.

Are you doing pedal tones and what do you think of them? I remember Rick Baptist at a session where I was a writer
saying that he didn't care for pedal tones.

Al

Roy Poper is certainly an excellent player. Thanks for sharing his experiences with buzzng.
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ComposeAl
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
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Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ole and all,

When I'm in better shape it seems like the buzzing is less important for me too, while the bending is
helpful not just in the warmup, but off and on throughout my practice session. I'm doing a lot of buzzing now
to expose vibration problems. As I am playing more and more, I'm getting more responsive buzzing
and the buzzing seems to help my lip get more responsive. Playing in tune on the mouthpiece is also challenging.

I noticed a new bad habit creeping in and that is playing on a dry lip. It's strange because that has never
been problem before. It's difficult to buzz effectively with a dry lip and that's the extra benefit I'm
enjoying from the buzzing.

When I studied with Jimmy, he took me very high, E's, F's, and G's, on the mouthpiece followed
by going down to very low pedal tones. I'm doing more pedals now and they seem rejuvenating to my lip.

Are you doing pedal tones and what do you think of them? I remember Rick Baptist at a session where I was a writer
saying that he didn't care for pedal tones.

Al

Roy Poper is certainly an excellent player. Thanks for sharing his experiences with buzzng.
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ComposeAl
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 35
Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ole and all,

When I'm in better shape it seems like the buzzing is less important for me too, while the bending is
helpful not just in the warmup, but off and on throughout my practice session. I'm doing a lot of buzzing now
to expose vibration problems. As I am playing more and more, I'm getting more responsive buzzing
and the buzzing seems to help my lip get more responsive. Playing in tune on the mouthpiece is also challenging.

I noticed a new bad habit creeping in and that is playing on a dry lip. It's strange because that has never
been problem before. It's difficult to buzz effectively with a dry lip and that's the extra benefit I'm
enjoying from the buzzing.

When I studied with Jimmy, he took me very high, E's, F's, and G's, on the mouthpiece followed
by going down to very low pedal tones. I'm doing more pedals now and they seem rejuvenating to my lip.

Are you doing pedal tones and what do you think of them? I remember Rick Baptist at a session where I was a writer
saying that he didn't care for pedal tones.

Al

Roy Poper is certainly an excellent player. Thanks for sharing his experiences with buzzng.
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Atomlinson
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Joined: 21 May 2002
Posts: 327
Location: Somerset England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ComposeAl, OJ, and everyone

Yes, I use the pedal tones. They are an integral part of the first few exercises in the Stamp book. This is how I view them.

It seems to me that when you play the exercises like the second section of Exs 3, 4b and some of the range extension exercises in the second part of Ex.5 this is what happens. "Staying up while going down" keeps the basic embouchure 'firm' but quite naturally the lips pucker a bit more and presumably the 'aperture' opens up as well. Then the idea is to 'hold' this embouchure set while ascending up the arpeggios "Staying down while going up" and I find the top note comes out sounding big and free. I've seen it stated a number of times that the position of the embouchure used in playing pedal tones is what is needed to play in the high register.

Pierre Thibaud (who studied with Stamp) has based his method on this principle except that he uses the double pedal register. He says on page 4 of his first volume (BQ-74) "I consider that the position of the lips in the double pedal register provides for a complete freedom of vibration. If the work in this register is carried out diligently, with a normal position, the standard playing range (from low F# to high C) becomes very easy to play. Moreover, it can be achieved with a minimum of fatigue." In the next paragraph he says "Another aspect of this work consists of mastering the transition from low pedal notes to the normal register with the smallest possible lip movement. When double pedal notes are played, the 'body', or thickness of the lips between the mouthpiece and the teeth is at its greatest. This affords maximum protection from fatigue. When moving into the normal register, it is important to maintain this lip thickness as much as possible, so as to safeguard the lips."


So pedal tones are to do with "freedom of vibration" of the lips and the pucker which provides a cushion allowing only "minimum fatigue".

That's the theory, but trying to achieve it in practice is another story.


Andrew Tomlinson

[ This Message was edited by: Atomlinson on 2004-08-26 05:05 ]
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ComposeAl
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Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andrew,

Does your jaw drop significantly when you do pedal tones?

Thanks,

Al
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Atomlinson
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Location: Somerset England

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Al

I had to play them to see what happens when I do them.

My lower jaw doesn't drop significantly but it does move forward slightly. I've also noticed as I go down towards pedal C my head is tilting increasingly downwards and the bell of my trumpet is going up.

Have you got Bert Truax's "Bert's Basic Brass" DVD? He studied with Stamp, and when he explains about pedal tones he mentions the lower jaw moving forward.


Andrew Tomlinson
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question:

How would I go about improving lip bends in the lower register?

I can do lip bends slightly wider than 1/2 step on a G on top of the staff with no real difficulty, but when it comes to low A down to low F# I can't do the bends comfortably and maintain a good sound.

Anyone have any ideas about this?
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trumpetherald
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to say without hearing you play, but if you can't bend on the lower pitches you may be losing support down there.

I'd suggest the common-sense approach:

Start where you can do a half-step bend with good sound on the main pitch and down to the bend. Then, simply move down in half-steps or whole-steps towards the lower register and strive to maintain the quality of the sound as you move lower. Keep your playing position stable and listen intently (intensely) to the sound, find the point where the sound deteriorates, and work on that point. After a few days, you'll be able to move down another step or so; continue until you can maintain center (quality of sound) and support all the way into the lower register.

HTH

TD
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ComposeAl
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:12 pm    Post subject: Stamp Bends Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

I finally got the book of Stamp Warm-ups and Exercises and it's fantastic! I was so thrilled with the thoroughness of the explanations of the exercises and the wonderful pictures of Jimmy. These look like the age of the Jimmy I studied with in the mid and late 70's.

If you don't have this book, get it. Tommy Stevens also contributed three studies in the Stamp style that are also very cool.

Jim put lip bends on lots and lots of places not shown in the book, at least when I studied with him. I remembered that a good way to relax and restore one's chops is to do some lip bends.

Once I came in for a lesson with Jim after having played a long a brutal Latin gig the previous night. My chops were so swollen, I didn't know if I could even play a little. Jimmy spent about 15 minutes just doing low register lip bends resting inbetween each. After about 15 minutes the swelling had reduced considerably. and we played the rest of quite a demanding lesson. I actually left the lesson with my lip feeling much better than when I came in.

Jimmy was a genius!

Best to all,

Al Davis

Glendale, CA
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trumpetherald
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Al:

I'm curious, from one who studied directly with Jimmy, how much different were his 'assignments' from one student to the next ... meaning, how much did he adapt his stuff from one student to another? I've heard that what he did with one guy could have been considerably different than with another depending on what he thought they needed.

Thanks for your insight on this.

TD
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shofar
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetherald wrote:
Hey Al:

I'm curious, from one who studied directly with Jimmy, how much different were his 'assignments' from one student to the next ... meaning, how much did he adapt his stuff from one student to another? I've heard that what he did with one guy could have been considerably different than with another depending on what he thought they needed.

Thanks for your insight on this.

TD


Hey Todd:

I know you're post was to Al, but I would like to reply as well. At least when I studied with Jimmy, there didn't seem to be a lot of difference in what he did, from the other lessons I heard. The main thing I found was that he might spend more time on the mouthpiece, or on certain of his exercises that he approached a little differently with some students more than others. He also seemed to really emphasis the way in which the Clarke, Arbans Characteristics, etc were to be practiced (much like the scales studies, etc). I think OJ has a link to some examples of this on his web site.

What I mean is when he emphasised the holds that he added at the top so eveything was put were it should be (as some might each note has a slot, but every note beautifully in tune with a great sound). Kind of hard to explain. But the way I understood it was, everything seemed to be based on his saying, "Stay down going up, Stay up going Down". The way he approached evrything, including the bending exercises, seemed based on this idea, so as to produced an ease of playing and a great sound were everything was centered.

I hope this makes sense, i don't think I explained it as well as could be...LOL. I would love to hear Al's take on this.

See ya, Rog.
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ComposeAl
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject: Stamp Lesson format Reply with quote

Hi Todd & Rog,

My experiences with Jimmy's lessons are very similar to Rog's. He used much of the same stuff for everyone because they seem to work for everyone.

My description of being swollen meant that Jimmy need to thaw out my chops before we could go on to other stuff. It was a great lesson to realize that there was something I could do to remedy my swollen condition in case I had to play something for real.

The amazing thing about Jimmy is that his few simple procedures seem to solve so many problems.

Al
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