Zeus: How Are They?

cybersnyder · Regular Member Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 37

He guys, first post here. I have varied musical interests. Played trumpet years ago and I'm thinking about getting back into it. What does this have to do with the ZeuS? Well, like I said, I have varied interests. I was looking into getting a new guitar and ran across ZacharyGuitars.com (same guy). I placed an order because I think he has some very solid design points to his guitars, but then the email started getting strange (similar to his posts on this forum so you know what I mean). Anyways, I cancelled the order and decided to cut my risk. Looking back at the email, I think he just enjoys playing games with you from time to time. To get one of his guitars, you almost need to adhere to his religion. I actually went crawling back to see if he would build one for me after cancelling (he really has some good design points) but of course I was on "the list". His guitar designs (the latest) border on genius, but will never make much of an impact due to his marketing flair.

So, after the guitar fiasco, I was very suprised to see that he sells band instruments. Makes sense I guess. Not too much money in the custom (err handcrafted) guitar business. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

If you think his instrument website is over the top, check out the guitar site.

I'll pick up a Parker guitar and be very happy with it.

Any suggestions for a getting-back-into-playing-trumpet-after-not-touching-one-for-twelve-years trumpet?

Rich

_PhilPicc · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:21 am Post subject:

Zeusfan,

I'm sorry to hear about your spring breaking.

I have a variety of extras ones if that would help. I'm not sure they would fit since they are Bach, Benge, King, Conn and the newest would be 1980 vintage.

If I can be of help please let me know.
Phil

P.S. Which spring did you break?

_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

[ This Message was edited by: PhilPicc on 2004-03-31 13:26 ]

2LIP · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:28 am Post subject:

Tom Turner: Thanks for the info and education. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us.

Alex: he is a character and does love to mess with people. He is very passionate about what he does and he is also a well trained and experienced technician. I don't always agree with what he says and more importantly how he says it, but you have to give him credit when due.

The Zues G is a well crafted horn. I had an opportunity to play them in February of 04 and fit and finish is very good. They are bell heavy, have too much resisitance for me, lean to the bright side, and I just don't like the way they feel in my hands. That being said, I don't care for the way a lot of horns feel in my hands, and it has to do with the 1st valve saddle vs ring. I prefer a ring or nothing to a saddle or trigger. Just my preference. If you are on a budget, and must have a new horn, then check out the Zues. For a few hundred more, Kanstul makes some Pro horns that kick butt.

Mitch "The LIP"

[ This Message was edited by: 2LIP on 2004-03-31 13:30 ]

Zeusfan · Regular Member Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 87

I think I found a nerve. It seems like some of you are very intimidated at the success that Zeus horns are having. It's almost like some of you sell trumpets for other companies that are being out sold by Zeus. Oh wait, you do! How are the Wild Thing sales coming for you Tom. I find it very strange for you to be so defensive about a less expensive horn than the Wild Thing. Could it be that you are losing some sales? The Zeus Olympus is nearly half the price. I am entertained at how you pick apart a horn (Zeus) that you say is manufactured by Kanstul. On the Wild Thing testimonial page it says the Kanstul makes Wild Things as well. HMMMMMM? If the same manufacturer makes both horns and the Wild Thing is double the price it seems to me like someone is being a bit dishonest doesn't it? You can attack Alex for posting lies on his website that only you can prove or you can be dishonest to the market. The public will buy something that is expensive just because it is expensive. I understand that Wild Thing sales for more because it is inticing to buyers at the high price. "It must be a better horn since it is $1000 more" No way! It may be a different horn but not better than Zeus. I want to put a horn in a student's hands that they can afford and enjoy the rest of their life and that their parent's will not have to max out their credit cards to afford.

Since you say that Kanstul makes Zeus and I know that Kanstul makes Wild Things, I will buy a new Wild Thing .470 bore horn in any finish that I desire for $1500.00.
Send me an email with the address I need to ship the check to, and I will send it right out.

The other day I was talking to a used Monette dealer, and he said that he had heard great things about the Zeus trumpets. How about that, a Zeus receiving praise from a seller of $10,000 horns. He has said to me in the past that he can't stand playing Bach horns. He says intonation is horrible on them and also on Taylor.

As for you Porkchops, I can say that I play for anybody in the world. It is easy to fabricate stuff under a false name. You haven't had the courage to post your real name. And, churches will pay almost any one to play an instrument in their orchestra. I have been paid to play in church orchestras since 7th grade. That is not saying much. You didn't even say where you are from. I am sure there are tons of gigs you can get in Mayberry.

By the way, Phil, I think you misunderstood I said spring-break, as in college spring-break, not my valve spring-break. Oops!

I am assuming that this thread will be pulled since the moderators are intimidated by Zeus horns as well. This is not a very fair forum is it? Have fun reading while you can!
_________________
Zeus dealer
Capouser@aol.com

Zeus Olympus
Zeus Guarnerius Bb
Zeus Guarnerius C
2 antique Bach 37's that sit at the house

"If you are still talking about what you did yesterday, you didn't do jack today"

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:00 am Post subject:

Thanks to a fellow TH poster; I tried the Olympus recently and thought it was a great, great horn for $1,500. I can't see how even the biggest nitpicker with any agenda (hidden or not) can rag on this horn.

Anybody try it and diasgree? Why?(details please)

jophst · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:04 am Post subject:

jgadvert:

I don't think that is the issue. The issue is that he hasn't tried "our" horns and is ragging on them a bit ... not same manufacturer horns ... my horn that I have in my case. He can't speak for everyone and at times, his tone can appear that way.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

_Don Herman · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:07 am Post subject:

Hmmm.... I'm seriously wondering if there isn't something in the solder used to assemble the Zeus horns that makes (some of -- certainly not all, even on this site) their dealers respond to criticism with personal attacks?

The moderators aren't intimidated, btw. However, personal attacks are against the guidelines. Arguably, both Tom and Zeusfan should clean up their posts a bit. IMO, if anything were to happen to this thread right now, it would be to pull Zeusfan's last post and only that. Instead, why not an edit to your post to counter the other side's arguments, or delineating the Zeus' good points (many of which have been articulated by others, including Tom), and leaving off the personal attacks, baiting, and name-calling? Your call.

Final note: a real shocker, but sometimes better value and performance with higher quality materials and parts, handcrafted final fit and finish, does come at a higher price, for many items...

I really hate to see another thread pulled. Fair warning! - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

nextbrassguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 1428

Don,
Speaking for myself, thanks for stepping in to restore some civility here. IMHO, Tom never crossed a line; his last post seems to be both balanced and, most importantly based on facts! I'll leave it to others to comment on Zuesfan.

Zeusfan · Regular Member Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 87

I will not edit my post. I did not say anything that was untrue. If I did, point it out to me and I will edit that material out. People can attack me, but I can't defend myself? I think the beauty of this website is that we can put our egos on the table. We are trumpet players. That is what we do. I am pretty sure that I didn't hurt Tom's feelings or Porkchops because they dealt first. A personal attack would be to say "I guess Porkchops is a fat trumpet player." That would be out of line because the only thing that clues me in on that would be the word "pork." I am simply defending myself. So, I can say that Bach is garbarge all day long and that I would rather have an enema that play one minute on it, but I can't state the truth? I can give any opinion that I desire about a horn, but I can't give facts?
_________________
Zeus dealer
Capouser@aol.com

Zeus Olympus
Zeus Guarnerius Bb
Zeus Guarnerius C
2 antique Bach 37's that sit at the house

"If you are still talking about what you did yesterday, you didn't do jack today"

JackD · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:32 am Post subject:

I'm a trumpet student, and I'd just like to say that the various Zeus sales people on here have put me off wanting trying to try a Zeus. I'll stick to my very nice Bach, thanks.

Ever heard of P.R.?

histrumpet · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:40 am Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: histrumpet on 2004-03-31 14:44 ]

_PhilPicc · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:52 am Post subject:

Zeusfan,

I went to college and am quite aware of spring breaks.

You just might have missed the levity of my post with the rest of what's going on in the thread. So much for a stab at humor.

Regards,
Phil
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

heavyharmonies · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:09 pm Post subject:

My two cents: Yes, Zeusfan is being defensive, but frankly I have a problem with Mr. Turner's post as well: Mr. Turner goes on at length about the negatives of Alex and Zeus without *ever* admitting in the post that he sells a competitor's horn. I think that a disclaimer to that effect should have been the very first line in his post. Most of us know that he sells WTs, but a board newbie may not, and not realize thet there are potential axes being ground.

I'm not trying to imply anything untoward on Mr. Turner's part, but in all fairness his affiliation (and any other salesman's afiiliation) should be disclosed ANY time they are acting in an informative capacity about a competitor's offerings.

It's only fair.

-Dan

veldkamp · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:28 pm Post subject:

It's not a problem that a dealer praises his horn. It's just not fair when the dealer misleading his potential buyers with false info about the horn. Read the Zacherymusic website and compare it to the Flip Oakes website and you'll see my point.
_________________
www.erikveldkamp.com

trumpetmike · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:50 pm Post subject:

Intimidated by ZeuS – funniest suggestion on TH!

I have a lot of respect for many of the people who post on this forum and especially for the moderators (their job is a difficult one), but when somebody (anybody!) starts saying that we should all be playing one brand of trumpet (whether they make it, play it or sell it) they lose much of my respect, not to mention their credibility.
All trumpeters are different.
We all want different things out of our instruments.
As I said earlier, I have actually tried a ZeuS – for me it is not the instrument of choice (nor is it for the guy who owns it, for that matter), but I do recommend people should try them. It could be the trumpet that works for them.

I hope that the Moderators don’t start removing some of the posts from this thread – they could be used as an example of how not to win friends on TH.

_Don Herman · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:01 pm Post subject:

OK, while we think on it, here's my (and mine alone, without the concensus of the other moderators) thoughts:

Disclaimer: I do play a WT (several of them) but have not commented on the Zeus itself because I've never played one. I did pass on some comments from a couple of pros a while back and was soundly flamed for not providing names. I withdrew my post as they would not agree to have their names posted publicly on this board. Until I have a chance to try a Zeus, I have no comment on the horn itself. If this makes all my posts on this thread worthless, so be it.

1. Tom should have included a reference in his opening line stating his status as a WT rep. Maybe "I've played Mt. Vernons, and now rep for Flip's Wild Things" or some such. While imo (and not necessarily that of the other moderators) he skirts the line with his Alex comments, I'd leave the rest of the post as-is. YMMV.

Aside: Those of us long on this board know Tom was an unabashed admirer of the WT line long before he became a dealer/rep. So to me it's "Tom as usual", rep or not. This is admittedly not clear to newer members.

Now on to Zeusfan's post... Note that "truth" is not the issue here, though relevant; the issue is personal attacks and getting outside the proper use of this forum. So, since you asked, here's what I'd edit:

2. I would cut most all of the references to Tom out of your first paragraph. Here's what I would edit it to:

"I think I found a nerve. It seems like some of you are very intimidated at the success that Zeus horns are having. The Zeus Olympus is nearly half the price [of a WT]. The public will buy something that is expensive just because it is expensive. I understand that Wild Thing sales for more because it is inticing to buyers at the high price. "It must be a better horn since it is $1000 more" No way! It may be a different horn but not better than Zeus. I want to put a horn in a student's hands that they can afford and enjoy the rest of their life and that their parent's will not have to max out their credit cards to afford."

This leaves room for some counterarguments without the personal attacks.

3. I don't quite get the point of your second paragraph:

"Since you say that Kanstul makes Zeus and I know that Kanstul makes Wild Things, I will buy a new Wild Thing .470 bore horn in any finish that I desire for $1500.00.
Send me an email with the address I need to ship the check to, and I will send it right out."

Are you saying you can buy WT's straight from Kanstul? I think not. They, like Zeus and other horns built by Kanstul for specific companies, aren't available straight from the factory. As a moderator, I'd leave it; personally, I'd delete it because I don't follow it. Others may not be as dense as I, however.

4. I would do nothing to your next (Monette) paragraph.

5. I would delete the 4th paragraph, dealing with Porkchops, in its entirety. Nothing but a personal attack and adds nothing to the credibility of the horn (or dealer).

6. Again, I personally don't feel the sarcasm is warranted to Phil, but as a moderator would leave the next paragraph as a response to Phil's.

7. The last paragraph is simply a taunt and I would wipe it. Again, it really adds nothing to the discussion.

Now you know what I would do. These Zeus threads keep degenerating, and a lot of good info (pro and con Zeus) goes when the threads are lost. I'd really like to see some of them stay around!

My 0.000001 cent - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

trumpetmike · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject:

And that, folks, is why Don is a respected Moderator!

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

How about Tom change his nickname to <Tom "Wild Thing" Turner> ?

)

Thanks for the post, Don. Right on.

cybersnyder · Regular Member Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 37

Why is it that in a search of Google.com of "wild thing trumpet", hit #4 is for zacharymusic.com? Cause the guy pads his pages with his competitors. I'm very suprised he hasn't had legal action against him yet.

Trptbenge · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:18 pm Post subject:

I was at the Trumpet fest. in Atlanta that Tom mention in his post. I found the Zeus B flats to be stuffy and very average but I found the C trumpets to be excellent and a great value. The Kanstul Student horns actually outplayed the Zeus B flats and several other horns.

Now, the Wild thing! There are two differences with the Wild thing. First, they start off with better parts and valves. Secondly, Flip takes time to go over every horn to make sure it plays the way it should before it gets to the player.

I personally think the Zeus horns are overall a pretty good value for what you get. This value and the payment plan have contributed greatly to the success of the horns. My turnoff has never been the horns it has been the marketing strategy of blatant misrepresentation (i.e. Mt. Vernon Issue) and some inappropriate things that were on the website (woman pretending to give oral sex to a statue of Ronald McDonald, woman in lingerie, language, etc.). While I may have even chuckled some of those antics. I don't think a lot of parents would appreciate their kids seeing some of those things on the web. That is my main issue.

Zeusfan, Jim Fox, Mike Daniels and any other Zeus Dealers you have a decent horn for the money. That has never been the issue in my book. It is the marketing strategy.

One more thing. There have been many horn makers before Alex that claim their horns are the best horn and put down the competition. Remember the best horn is the one that works for you. It ain't the horn!

Mike
_________________
It's the sound that makes the difference!