Smooth Jazz

trjeam · Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2002 5:10 pm Post subject:

Ok for all you jazz lovers out there. What do you guys think of this new Smooth Jazz stuff? They have Smooth Jazz stations all over the place. I noticed the other day that on my direct TV channel list they have a smooth jazz channel and a jazz channel where they play the traditional dizzy gillespie/miles davis stuff and then they have a big band channel (which is still jazz to me) and they sometimes they have the dixieland channel which they might as well call the Louis Armstrong channel because that is all they ever play.

Anyways I was listening to all these stations and smooth jazz does not sound like jazz to me. It sounds more like instrumental pop music. In matter of fact the other day I was listenin to the smooth jazz stations and I heard two tunes pop tunes beign played by some sax player. One was Will Smith's "just the two of us" and another song was smash mouths (i think that is the bands name) "And When the morning comes" and the worse part was that it was so boring to hear these pop tunes played by instrumentalist because they didn't even bothe to improv or anything they just played the same thing over and over again.

So in conclusion i do not like smooth jazz and don't think it should be called jazz.

What do you guys think?
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Locke · Regular Member Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 13

I could not agree more. I feel that pop tunes should only be played with...POP SINGERS AND A POP BAND. I have yet to hear a good pop song that sounds good on an instrument such as a trumpet or saxophone. Instrument players should stick to songs that were written to be played on an instrument.

mistrad37 · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:06 pm Post subject:

I could not agree more, I feel that most smooth jazz is rather boring if not monotonous. I recently heard the Rippington's in concert which is a smooth, pop, jazz type of band and it was pathetic. Honestly the musicianship was quite poor. Now I am not trying to bash them at all, maybe they had a bad concert. But when they tried to do a take on the Jimi Hendrix version of "All along the Watchtower" I couldn't help but lower my head in discust. It was horrible to hear what they were playing. I am a lover of all of the different sub levels of jazz, however, I think that smooth jazz is not jazz at all. To me, it is a combination of pop, with the desire for money. These bands seem to want the money more than they want musicianship. Not to mention that smooth jazz tends to have absolutely no improvisation. That is what makes Jazz so special! The ability to take a melody or form and play something truly from the soul without any written music in front of you. The ability to innovate and show your passion for jazz. Honestly, I think these musicians have sold out.

Yoinks · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 258

The only guy that might be considered to be in that genre that I really like is Chris Botti. Some would consider it smooth jazz, except that it is good, because Chris is so good. That guy can play totally straight ahead bebop, but the smooth jazz makes him cash. I just heard him play live recently and it was all more traditional jazz, with little of the stuff he puts out on CD. He did a Miles Davis tune and I thought melted butter was going to pour out of his bell his sound was so warm and full.

Halfnote · Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2002 8:50 pm Post subject:

Smooth Jazz shouldn't be called jazz at all - agreed! As stated above there is little to no improvisation and the harmonies they're using are for the most part diatonic "pop" type harmonies. There are some groups and individuals who cross over into this genre - perhaps for the loot, who's to say - who are still bonafied burners. The Yellowjackets is one group that comes to mind, but even their music is a bit heavy and not readily accessible to the KennyG crowd. The jazz station up here in Toronto just added some "smooth jazz" to their programming and every once in a while I'll hear names like Ron Carter or Keith Jarrett or Kenny Garret after a tune and it almost makes my stomach turn. To think these guys had to sell themselves so short so that they could continue to make it in our industry. And what's worse is that whoever is headlining the record these heavies are on is making a killing! As they say, "A gig's a gig." Who knows if I would pass on the opportunity if it ever came this way? Keep it Real......

Mark Heuer · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Nov 2001 Posts: 232

I have one Rick Braun cd (The Best of Rick Braun). It gets played once every few months. That's about all I can take.

trjeam · Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:27 pm Post subject:

dales · Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:40 pm Post subject:

Locke · Regular Member Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 13

dales,
I was speaking stickly about "smooth jazz".

Strawdoggy · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 10:58 am Post subject:

Well guys, I guess I am in the minoirty here, but I like it.

I am lucky enough to do a lot of big band playing, and a fair amoung of small group straight-ahead gigs. I just finished playing two jobs at the Berks County Jazz Festival (PA), and they were both "cool jazz" gigs.

The people loved it. I only do this kind of stuff a few times a year, and really look forward to it. For me it is a wonderful change of pace. I also like to listen to Rick Braun. He is a great player who uses lots of space and has a lot of soul.

Don't forget that at one time, jazz WAS pop. Many of the great jazz standards were taken from Broadway shows or pop tunes of the thirties.

Steve

pfrank · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:50 pm Post subject:

tom turner · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 3:08 pm Post subject:

Hi PFrank,

I'm not saying that I disagree with you at all but, for the sake of having a great "arguement," please let me play "devil's advocate" for a second.

AND DE' OL' DEVIL SEZ . . .
Like the debate, "Is the glass half empty or half full?," the answer can be BOTH! It is the same with record companies.

Do the record companies sell the muz-azz stuff (my term for "smooth jazz") to pad their bank accounts so they can afford to record and launch cutting edge artists worthy of being heard (yet totally devoid of even breaking even economically) . . . or do record companies record and distribute cutting edge artists to raise the reputation of their labels in order to slip in a few crappy artists that they can make big money on?

THE OL' DEVIL CONCLUDES . . .
It is more logical that a record company, like all businesses, exists to make a profit that will allow them to remain in business and grow. Without profit there would be no record companies.

The question is not why companies record the players who are most "commercially viable" . . . the true question may be "how much of their profits they choose to spend on non-commercial artists instead of simply investing the money on the stock market and making more money on the investments.

We all hate the prices of recordings and feel the record companies are sometimes the villans . . . yet without them where would we all be?

Just food for thought . . . even if I agree with you!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

JoeCool · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 5:23 pm Post subject:

Yes, you are right Tom. It's the great paradox of the music biz. Ya gotta sell records to make a living. But the average shmo that doesn't get it (the music) wants three chords and a chorus. He wants to be ENTERTAINED. That was/is Chicago's problem. They are a band of great musicians/writers, but nobody got or get's their music, so they're relegated to a 'power ballad' and greatest hits parade.

Chris Botti is able to walk that tightrope. I like him alot. I like Rick Braun too. The stuff he's done since the greatest hits record is on par with Botti. I like the Shake it Up collaboration with Boney James.

FYI-----Chris Botti=student of Bill Adam and Woody Shaw
Rick Braun=Went to either Julliard or Eastman (duh I can't remember) and was a student of Carmine Caruso

kenny dorham is an animal · Veteran Member Joined: 15 Jan 2002 Posts: 133

One was Will Smith's "just the two of us"

whoa, buddy the original singer was not will smith lol. Can tell the boys a youngin. lol Please dont credit that song to will simth. heh
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AccentOnTrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 878

WHOA!!! Bill Withers did "Just The Two Of Us", if I recall correctly.

Most smooth jazz is junk if you ask me...But some players do it really well. Ever hear George Benson's "Breezin'", or Arturo Sandoval's "Americana"? Maybe it's because those guys are just both great players on their instruments (guitar and trumpet respectively). Both of those albums are among my favorites. Arturo's "Americana" album really opened my eyes and made me realize a lot about immigration. I think every Latin American person should own that album, because it's really a reflection of how privilaged we are to be in America. Also the music is great. I find it funny how people criticized Arturo for not bring "musical" enough when he did fast, screamin' bebop lines but then when he came out with this album and offered a more sensitive side and played more ballads, people started bitching like "What? No screaming?!". You just can't please some people I guess.

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 3:07 pm Post subject:

See, you learn something old every day!

All this time I thought that it was Grover Washington who did "Just The Two Of Us." Maybe it was his version that got the most play. That happens.

I did an electrified jazz recording in 1986, thinking that I was going to make a million. Nobody wanted to hear it. I couldn't pay people to listen to it. I'd tell you the names of the other players, but I'd get accused (yet again) of having to impress everybody here to boost my ego. So I'll never tell.

Your loss.

Rich
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DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

The smooth jazz station around here - about 35 miles away is what I mean by "around here" - is located in a large metropolitan area. This station fits the model described above of playing mostly "popish" sounding instrumentals with an occasional vocal tune thrown in. There is also the occasional "top 40" or "easy listening" type song that may have been popular - not rock, however - in the past at some time. Saxophone and synthesizer dominated sounds are probably the biggest single part of the playlist. Probably most of the artists that would fall into the smooth jazz category are played, although I cannot give much in the way of names because I do not listen to the station for any long periods of time and consequently, do not become familiar with the artists or song titles.

I do like Chris Botti, Rick Braun, and Herb Alpert, and these do get some airplay on that station. I do not consider these players to be great "innovators" in music(with the possible exception of Herb Alpert whose Tijuana Brass sound and style was something unique and original in the musical landscape of the 1960s). But I do very much like to hear them play because I admire their tone, sound, and general playing skills. I would love to sound like any of them....I would love to have their tone...

That being said, I do feel the general playlist is pretty boring.

Does anyone remember the "easy listening" radio format of the sixties? Stations that specialized in playing the favorites of perhaps your parents(if you are in my generation as I am 51 years old) - Mantovani, Henry Mancini, Frank Sinatra, Percy Faith, Hugo Montenegro, Bert Kempfert, Billy Vaughan, Jackie Gleason Orchestra, Nelson Riddle, etc....some people called some of this music "orchestral pop."

Do you think that "smooth jazz" is the present day version of that earlier "easy listening" format which is no longer heard, at least on the radio stations that I can receive around here in Northeast Ohio?

In conclusion, some of the "smooth jazz" I like - some I don't really care for - it depends - but I prefer it to some of the other crap that you can find on the radio....

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2003-04-19 18:38 ]

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2003-04-19 18:44 ]

EBjazz · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 3:42 pm Post subject:

<All this time I thought that it was Grover Washington who did "Just The Two Of Us." >

You're both right. It was on Grover's record and Bill Withers sang it and they co-wrote it.

Eb
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FlugelFlyer · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:29 pm Post subject:

Of course, don't let the mellow tones of Braun and Botti fool you, they are both monsters IMO when it comes to playing trumpet. I have yet to hear them in concert, but I hear Braun can really get into some monstrous virtuoso playiong in his concerts. Botti, from what I hear, still prefers mellow in his concerts, but I have heard about an occasional Dubba C thrown into the mix. I'd definately be there to see a collaboration between the two, if it ever happens.

etrump · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:32 pm Post subject:

Man! I love the smooth jazz trumpet sound.

Actually about the only style of jazz I can't really get into is the acid jazz.

Chris Botti and Rick Braun don't play warmed over pop hits, most of the stuff is their own creation.

I think it is a cross over from pop or adult contemporary which will grow and provide alot of opportunity for instrumentalists. Those channels are popping up all over the place.

Don't you think it is jazz for people who don't play an instrument or have not cultivated a taste for traditional jazz?