Smooth Jazz

Gillestar1 · Veteran Member Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 344

Hey! I like Rich Braun...have not been following this too closely, but wanted to put a vote in for him. Does he compare to the all-time greats....No. Do I enjoy listening to him as much...YES!! So shoot me......LOL
_________________
SMILE!! It takes only 17 muscles to smile...43 muscles to frown. Conserve energy.

)

Kurt

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

I started liking Braun a lot when the song "Shake It Up" began to get airplay - on the smooth jazz station. I think a lot of this music would be more appropriately called "instrumental pop."

I bought the Shake It Up CD - the Rick Braun/Boney James collaboration - and listen to it quite a bit. I think there is some very "tasteful" trumpet playing on it. Rick has great control and tone - seems to play effortlessly. I admire someone who makes it all sound so easy. There is quite a bit of variety - you might call it "instrumental pop," but that's OK - I still like it. I think Rick does some great playing on it - I wish I could even come somewhere close to the sound...

Regarding Botti, I like his song "Drive Time." It's another one that shows off tone, styling, phrasing, and control.

Not only do these guys sound great, but they have what I call CONTROL - they can make the horn do exactly what they want it to. The mechanical limitations/restrictions that confront so many players have been overcome and the sound just comes flowing out.

jazz_trpt · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:14 am Post subject:

Ear candy. Blechh.
_________________
Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!

mark936 · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 2:02 pm Post subject:

ah shoot.

I was just about to submit my best Chris Botti transcription for consideration on shout.net~jh.

in the can you go.

cybertrumpet · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 2:23 pm Post subject:

What I don't like about what they call smooth jazz is that it implies that real jazz is not smooth? Joe Henderson playing Lush Life is about as smooth as it gets in my opinion. So much of that "smooth jazz" is just the most unmusical thing I have ever heard. Some of it is good, but again, none compares to the real deal. I saw Botti in a clinic and it was terrible. All he did was talk about the people that he knew and the places he played. I left the clinic thinking, "what the heck was that all about??" I have, however, left a Bobby Shew clinic totally inspired and enlightened!! Not I call that SMOOTH!!
_________________
When I think of the perfect sound, I think practice. When I think of the perfect horn, I think Schilke.

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

marktrumpet · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 5:51 pm Post subject:

I think music falls into two categories. Good and bad.

If something is bad or good we as musicians should figure out why, otherwise we cannot grow as musicians. There is some smooth jazz, as the recording industry has labeled it, that I feel is great. However, some of it is not so good.

I can say the same about some straight ahead jazz CDs I've purchased too. The players might be great but for whatever reason, (the players were tired or stoned, the compositions lack something, the engineer doesn't know what he/she is doing, or tries to control the musical creation, etc.) the music does not convey anything and is not good.

To put music into a category and not listen to any of it because you think it is all the same, is your choice, but you might just miss something that you can use yourself to become a better musician and artisit.

bophead · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:13 am Post subject:

I think the 'smooth jazz' phenomenon has been a good thing for music. Although I do not enjoy that style of music I think it has done good things for 'traditional' jazz. There are a number of listeners of straight ahead jazz that developed interest after being introduced to the idiom through 'smooth jazz'. At one time (the ignorance of youth) I thought Grover Washington and Chuck Mangione were at the very top of the artistic scale and that specifically Mangione was saying all there was to be said on the flugel horn. My dad, who was busy introducing me to Miles, Dizzy, and a host of others, thought me nuts. There are players who are burning up both the traditional and smooth jazz charts...Kenny Garrett did it with a recent release. Dales speaks to artists of the day playing the pop tunes of the day (Porter, Berlin, Mercer, et al). Herbie Hancock gave an offering that included Prince, Sade, Kurt Cobain, Lennon/McCarthy that could not possibly be misconstrued as 'smooth jazz'. An artist can only do so much with the music that is infront of them. There are some pop artists who are not writing well so any rearrangments of their tunes may leave lots to be desired (MacArthur Park comes to mind ... not much to it but it's still a scream vehicle). I recall Stanley Clarke, Randy Brecker and others doing an arrangement of 'Take the A Train' that was far from a 'smooth treatment'. To each their own ...
_________________
Earl
CG Benge

jazz_trpt · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:07 am Post subject:

mark936 · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:10 am Post subject:

Re: Grover Washington jr.-- his background was R & B and soulful organ-jazz combos.

1981 grammy winner- best R & B song "just the two of us." the whole album was smooth playing with bill withers on the last cut. "Soulful strut" album?

GW jr. died while taping an early morning show for CBS in 1999.

re: Chris botti hit the GBC shedder yesterday.

jazz_trpt · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:14 am Post subject:

bophead · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:55 am Post subject:

I believe Grover got his start in Philly with Lee Morgan. As with many playing in that idiom, Grover had chops. He choose to play things that were more appealing to the masses rather than pushing the envelope. Mangione was a student of Dizzy Gillespie and was (along with his brother, Gap) a member of the Jazz Messengers.
_________________
Earl
CG Benge

jazz_trpt · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:30 pm Post subject:

bophead · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:56 pm Post subject:

OK I may be tap dancing on (very) thin ice here I got the Mangione/Gillespie connection through word of mouth so I'll have to look to verify - I am certain I saw Gap's name on a Messenger album. As my ex-wife will tell you, I am fallible so let me check and get back.
_________________
Earl
CG Benge

72* · Regular Member Joined: 17 Feb 2003 Posts: 59

All you guys out there condemning smooth jazz are idiots. You have to be so good to play t hat s*** (minus Kenny g) Obviously you've heard Chris Botti. Eh. Ever heard Rick Braun? This guy can play. Look for some of his songs...or something. He got his degree from Eastman. (woohoo...) Most smooth jazz players are legit jazz players before turning over. Chuck magione? Chris Botti. I used to think it was gay too, until I found some good stuff. Yes, most smooth jazz sucks, but there are some good ones out there.

72*

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

72*
FWIW, my wife hates jazz but loves Chris Botti. I'm not sure what that means. Well...yeah, actually I do know what that means.
Larry Smithee

mark936 · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:17 pm Post subject:

"got his start with Lee Morgan..."

how about going back and checking that out too.

Yes, grover played in New York and Philly.

edit-- "Soulful Strut" should have read "Winelight"

jazz_trpt · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:44 pm Post subject:

First,

bophead · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 3:05 pm Post subject:

Here I go (eating crow)
1. I stand corrected. Gap Mangione was NOT a jazz messenger. I don't know what got into my head saying some wrong stuff like that. It was such a leap that his brother could've been on the same stage (at the same time - as a Jazz Messenger) with Art Blakey - I figured anything was possible. (munchin)
2. I cannot ask Dizzy if he truely taught young Chuck Mangione or if that family friendship was an opportunity to teach. From out of 'Salt Peanuts comes 'Feels So Good' I wonder if he would admit to having taught Chuck? (more munchin)
3. Grover and Lee (dammit) I cannot find the fact but I know it to be true. A quick read of Grover's Bio on Allmusic.com says that he was a sideman for Prestige which counts Lee Morgan out but does not eliminate the possibility that he (Grover) was up to the task. I will keep looking for that one. (burp)
I've learned the bitter lesson - I will verifiy my facts before I post them before such an august body of musicians.
_________________
Earl
CG Benge

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

Well, gee whiz, I don't know if smooth jazz is great or junk, but I DO know that Botti and Braun are good trumpet players, and I'd be really happy if I sounded anything like either of them.

I know - I should practice, and I do, but they are still a lot better than I am. I like to hear them play because they sound good. Perhaps some people would be less critical if they played some other kind of music, but that's what they play and I suspect that they make pretty good money at it at the same time. I also imagine that they are successful enough that it really doesn't matter if few people think otherwise....

My guess is that they are doing what they enjoy, are good at, and are filling their pockets and bank accounts at the same time. Research tends to show that a majority of people do not much like what they do for a living. I think these guys have got it made, so to speak. Probably having fun at what they enjoy doing and getting paid for it. Sounds good to me.....I sort of envy that....