student rolls in bottom lip

derekphtpt · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:12 pm Post subject:

Besides other problems one of my students has, he also rolls in his bottom lip. Is there anything I can do to change this embouchure? When I started I actually rolled my bottom lip out quite a bit so I find his lip position foreign to me. I don't know what to do. Should I just let him go? He has a thin tone but I think that's more from how he breathes.
Any help would be...helpful.
Thanks.

CalletJazz · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:48 pm Post subject:

I think he should be fine. Could you tell me if he has an overbite or not. If so, then it's perfectly normal. It is then the way he's getting the best vibrations. For me it works great! I tried everything else, but i've got a terrible overbite, so the lips must compensate for that. Just make sure he doesn't use a lot of pressure! For people with an overbite pressure is an important factor to deal with, cause the edges of the top teeth could be jammed in the top lip, this ain't good/comfortable.
Best of luck!
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derekphtpt · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:02 am Post subject:

he doesn't have an overbite. If it means anything, I had an overbite, yet I still rolled out. He does play with too much pressure, but who doesn't at that age (highschool).

derekphtpt · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:03 am Post subject:

he doesn't have an overbite. If it means anything, I had an overbite, yet I still rolled out. He does play with too much pressure, but who doesn't at that age (highschool).?

_dcstep · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:21 am Post subject:

If he also did some roll out excercises ala Balanced Embouchure he might actually get to a nice setup. He needs to learn to "drag down" the roll in and how to get the feel of a rolled out position. BE would probably be good for him.

Dave
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derekphtpt · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:59 am Post subject:

I know zilch about the Balanced Embouchure but I'll check it out. Thanks.

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

I played with a similar embouchere for a long time and it did cause some problems. Most notably when I ascended above the staff the lips would start interfering with the air flow, because the air would collect inside the lips. The harder I blew, the more the lips would change and it greatly limited my range and endurance.

I was actually studying with a french horn player at the time and he was the one who detected and corrected this. I made a conscious effort to change my embouchere to eliminate the problem and it did not take very long at all - better yet I did not really notice any detrimental problems when making the change.
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derekphtpt · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:40 am Post subject:

I'm curious. How did you change it? What exercises did you do and what embouchure did you strive to make so that the desired results...resulted? In other words, did you try an extreme roll-out so that eventually your mouth settled somewhere in the middle?

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

The change was actually pretty easy for me. My teacher recommended that I do a couple of basic things to help:

1. Think of suction cups on the outside of my lips gripping the mouthpiece. Then think of pushing the lips off of the mouthpiece into the air stream.

2. Watch in a mirror when practicing.

He had me do this for my warm-up and then after that I was just to play however it felt comfortable. After it became comfortable doing it for the warmups I was to think of it when playing very easy things, such as hymns, easy etudes. I would say that within 3-4 weeks I was fully converted to the new embouchere.
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John Mohan · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:45 pm Post subject:

I play with my lower lip rolled in a bit. Does this mean I should change it?

Forget about his lips - their only job is to vibrate. Concentrate on what makes them vibrate and you'll be of far greater help to him.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
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