Lesson Plan for Combacker????

QuarterToneFlat · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:03 am Post subject:

I'm a 39-year old comebacker, returned to playing in Dec 2003, after not having played
since College, 1984, where I studied privately for a short period.

Playing in Church is what has caused be to start back. I would consider myself an
average player, maybe slightly above average in some respects, but still have many issues to work through (double tounging, difficult keys, range limited to first-line A above the staff.

I found TH in late March, and learned of BE thereafter. I received my BE book 1st of April.

I've read lots of threads indicating the PATIENCE is key, so I know I shouldn't rush, but I also know I'm not a rank beginner 7-th grade trumpet student.

My question is, What is an appropriate Lesson Plan regarding BE for someone in my situation??

Before BE I was playing Irons Lip-Slurs #6 and #7, and I would like to start the Advanced
lip-slurs.

and

2) The double-pedals(RO) are coming nicely, but I have a concern regarding the RO.
It says in the Book to roll in til no pink shows to do the lip-clamp. When I setup to play
Roll-in #1, I don't think my lips have all the pink rolled in. Am I not doing the Roll-in
Correctly????

The sound I make does tend to jump up to the next higher partial, and sounds
similar to the CD...

Thanks in Adavance....
Rick
_________________
If the only tool you have is hammer...
The world is a nail.

oj · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:31 am Post subject:

Rick,

The best to answer your question is YOU.

Look in the lesson plans and find out what you can do. Then work from there.

Btw, in the first lesson plan there is no R.I. and R.O. but there is tongue on lips!

What puzzle me is that those new to BE often say they have started on R.O. #1 and R.I.#1 but almost none mention tonguing?

Why?

I guess these extreme roll-in and roll-out tend to take the focus away from tonguing... and after all we all have been tonguing..

so let's focus on the new things we have not done before.

But, have you done BE tonguing before? Probably not. Except for Michael in New Zealand, the rest of us have been doing the TA-TU-TEE tonguing (behind the teeth, etc).

If we take the lesson plans serious, we should not forget the BE tonguing. After all it is the starting point (together with lip clamp).

Welcome back, Comebacker Rick, and good luck!

Ole

Larrios · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:14 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Ole, you made a sharp observation on the lesson plans, thanks!

This makes me want to share a little experience with my newest student. She is a 10 y/o girl and didn't play before (There is almost no room for a before when you're that young!) at all. Great opportunity to get her started in the right direction!

Currently, I am also teaching another young girl, 11 y/o. When I started with her, almost two years ago, I wasn't as sure and confident about my perception of BE as I am today. (Still much to learn, of course.) Also, I didn't have any experience with teaching someone of that age. Consequently, I wasn't able to get her started as well as my newest student. This older student has had a really hard time to get used to the tongue on lips technique. Jeff can testify, as I emailed him for advise. It took several months to get something like an attack at all. She got it now though! Another thing I didn't judge right then, was when to start with RO and RI. At that point I introduced her too soon. Ole's point is very valuable! It's indeed important to follow the basic steps in the lesson plans. They are designed the way they are for a reason and with years of Jeff's experience.

Now with the other student, it's a totally different story. She has been playing only four weeks now, still in her 'trial lessons'. I got her started with the breathing excersise, the Lip Clamp and Squeak, Holt Till Empty and Tongue on Lips. Last week, her progress showed already that the 'higher' notes were coming more easily than the lower notes, while in the first lesson she would not get higher than F or second line G, mostly dropping a fifth. She was now overshooting! She tongued on lips till third line B last week and I expect middle C to be there as well in the next lesson.

To me, this shows the power of the Lip Clamp and the Squeak. They have already had a significant effect on this girl's lipposition, as I see it. And she didn't even touch any RI excersise yet. If this little effort can do so much, it also implies that underestimating the power and effect of the RO and RI can easily do damage if you overdo them or progress too soon. It's really better to go slow and step by step. As Ole says, and as it's mentioned in the manual, you should play around with the book and see how far you can get, especially if you already have some experience and are not a complete beginner, like yourself. However, be really critical in what you can and cannot do at this point. Where the Lip Clamp can help you, pushing yourself to play RI 3 might really mess you up at this stage.

Ok, I hope I didn't bore anyone with my story. I'm just so happy with my new student!

Ko

QuarterToneFlat · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject:

Just to clarify, I started with the beginner lesson plan(p136), and had relative ease with
it including the tounge-on-lips stuff. I went on to doing 4mo. Lesson plan, took a little while
to get the hang of the pedal tones. Still working on getting the pitch nicely centered.

Now I am doing the 6mo lesson plan, I'm just not sure I'm getting the R.I #1 done correctly.
I get a pitch, but I CAN SEE THE RED PARTS OF MY LIPS. I'm not sure I'm rolled in ENOUGH??

R.I#1 really makes my chops burn after a while, which I presume why I'm only supposed to
do it for a little while.

Whadaya think, Does It sound like I'm at the right place???

TIA,

Rick
_________________
If the only tool you have is hammer...
The world is a nail.

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:10 pm Post subject:

Rick,

Welcome to the TH!

There is a difference between doing a squeak and doing a Roll-In exercise. The squeak is to get you in the ballpark by exaggerating your rolled in lip position so much that typically no red shows. The Roll-Ins, on the other hand, are much more about finding a pitch while "more or less" rolled in. Some red can show, as it depends upon your lip architecture.

As you make more progress, you can always adjust to a more rolled in position. You may need to do this to move to a higher partial. But in the meantime, just go with what seems to work for now.

Ole - Your clarity here is much appreciated. I plead guilty in not emphasizing "the other stuff" enough, as so many emails and forum questions deal with the roll-in/outs. But the fact is, my private lesson students don't even start those exercises until they can do "the other stuff." Your observations here are a great reminder to us all.

Which leads to...

Ko - You are absolutely correct about the transformational power of the basic (non roll-in/out) exercises! Thank you for bringing this up. Many of my beginning students, now in their 8th month of lessons, don't even know what a RI or RO exercise is! To a surprising extent, the basic exercises are all many students need to make tremendous progress the first year or two.

Further, I have watched beginners, less than four months into lessons, spontaniously morph into a full roll-in for all of their playing (like on the book cover), without me saying anything about it. Rather, they just figure it out for themselves as a natural consequence of doing the basic exercises. They find it easy to do, get a great sound, and have better range than their peers. The only problem is, some band directors freak out over how it looks. But most of the time, the kids play so well that the directors just have to let it go.

Again, thanks to Ole and Ko for introducing this topic. For those interested, there will be a lot more about this in the next book. But please don't ask when it will be done, as I'm still working on figuring out to burn DVD's! The software/hardware I'm using is amazingly deep. Makes an embouchure problem look like a piece of cake.

Jeff

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetteacher1 on 2004-04-12 21:14 ]

horn4praiz · Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:53 am Post subject:

I started the BE method on Friday, March 26th and just last night I hit double-high C for the first time in my life. It was weak, but clean and clear. Up to this point I have found my lips are responding best by only doing BE every other day because it is so taxing on the lip muscles. Since I found that I already tongue on lips and had no problem with the breathing drills, I've already gotten into the lips slurs.

Also, fortunately for me, my music teacher taught me from the beginning to tongue on lips so that hasn't been any problem at all for me. The 'loud' drills and breathing exercises aren't a problem either.

Before I started BE, I could hit D above the staff with no strain, but of course I wanted more! I have to keep reminding myself to be patient and not try and do too much too soon. It will come.

I have found satisfaction overall in the BE method because it is confirming that my music teacher taught me all the basics (double/triple tongueing, slurs, other technical stuff) correctly when I was young and that BE is the final piece in the puzzle.

I also had to shave a bit of my beard off from around my lips because it was getting in the way of my Roll-In.

So far so good - I guess at this point I'd have to say be patient and don't be afraid to experiment with different schedules and exercises.

oj · Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:16 am Post subject:

horn4praiz,

Rather interesting to hear about your teacher learning you to tongue like this!

Could you perhaps ask him about it?
Where did he learn it, etc ?

It is not the common thing to teach. Often you will even be warned: DO NOT TONGUE THROUGH YOUR TEETH!

Ole

horn4praiz · Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:47 am Post subject:

My teacher moved to Florida years ago. We still exchange Christmas cards each year. His name is William Scheneman.

In his "former life" he was a U.S. Marine in the President's band (Truman thru Kennedy). He was a trombone/euphonium player and played all over the world with the Marines.

He never got caught up in 'methodology' per se, only what worked for each student individually. I really enjoyed his teaching.
_________________
-Bert
========================
Psalm 150:3 Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet