My date with a Yamaha xeno 8335(s)

[camel lips]

I did a review of the Getzen 3050 and now here is my review of the Yamaha 8335(s)

First the good news.The horn felt extremely light compared to the Getzen and the Conn Vintage 1.For people that don't like a heavy horn this one might just be for you.

The horn's fit and finish looked good.Slides fit good and the valves were nice and smooth.I removed valve 1 and was disappointed to see how trashy it looked.It looked like the coating did not take well or perhaps there was a large amount of lapping compound left in the horn but no matter how bad they looked the valves worked flawlessly.I would have cleaned the horn but alas it did not belong to me and I felt like the owner of the shop would not take kindly to me giving it a bath.

The horn played like Crap.I don't know any other way to put it.You could get one note to tune perfectly but then every note you played after that went to hell.You really had to lip every note to keep it in tune and balanced.I tried several mouthpieces that have served me well in the past including a standby Bach 3c and still had very poor results.

Thinking that it might be something wrong with the valves I took them out and wiped them down with some cheese cloth and re-oiled them and made sure they were centered in the valve guides and nothing changed.The horn still sucked.

Just a few miles down the road is another music shop and I decided to go down there and ck out to see what they had.They had two Xeno's in stock.One was the 8335 with the yellow brass bell and the other was a the standard 8335s.I will say that both of these horns played considerably better than the other one but they both fell short of what I consider a professional grade horn should be.

For that matter I played a Getzen 700 that played more centered than all three of those Yamaha's.
Needless to say I have crossed the Yamaha off of my list.Its not the horn for me.I will have to say I was disappointed because the horn did feel good.

[jophst]

Both of the Xeno's you mentioned had yellow brass bells .... the ones with the gold brass bells are designated with the "G" in the model #.

You really should try the 8335RGS (reversed leadpipe and gold brass model) before dismissing the Xeno line altogether. I always found the Xeno's to have really good intonation .. it was just the sound lacked character for me.

Good luck in your continuing hunt though. I'm still betting money that you'll end up with a Bach down the road ... ha!
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

[camel lips]

I got a good Bach thank you very much.I am just looking for something a little different as you well know and the Conn Vintage one has a very distinctive look and feel to it.

I really want to take a hard look at the Flip Oaks wild thing.


My next purchase of a horn is probably going to be my last for a good long while and I plan on it being the right one.

I agree with what you said about the Tone on the Yamaha.It did lack Character.

[jophst]

Hmm I see. Something different. Well in that case, since you have a good player in a legit Bach, I would certainly recommend the Conn V1 that you are currently playing. You can have so many combinations with all the extra slides and weighted caps they give you.

I have owned and played a lacquer Wild Thing and I easily fell into the 0.470 bore. I couldn't handle it, I'll be the first to admit it. After 15 -30 minutes I was already huffing and puffing! They play extremely well though and are terrific playing and sounding horns. With this horn, you will likely need an efficient mouthpiece, I believe that is the trade-off. It all depends what type of music you want to play. If you are playing Big Band, or lead where you want/need to be heard, well this is your horn.

If I were in your shoes and needed an extra great playing but different sounding horn, I would look no further than a Callet Jazz. Those things just play themselves. I loved that horn to death but had no use for it! Unfortunately they are no longer made, but you'll see them for sale every now and then. I can assure you that they all play great, the older ones and the slightly different looking newer ones.

It has a 0.470 bore as well but has the expandabore design which really helps playability and controlling this horn. If you get a chance, play one of these. These can play dark or bright to your liking. I already had a dark horn though.

Good luck in your continued search,
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

[improver]

you really have to try the 8335 rgs,rgm or rgsm. no character lacking here and the workmanship is incredible. the gold brass bell with those finishes make all the difference in the world.you just sound stuck on Bach.

[camel lips]

No,not at all.I am trying to get away from the Bach.I have a really nice one but they just kind of leave me ho hum in the sex appeal department.

BAch horns defiantly need a face lift.Getzen pro models,Conn Vintage 1 and the Kanstul line just look like the way a horn that is built in the year 2004 should be.

[jophst]

Me or camel lips?

I will be the first to admit that I have never found a Bach that will note for note outplay a Yamaha ... whether in the 6000 series or 8000 series (Xeno). I'm just not as consistent on a Bach as I am on a Yamaha. Working a little harder though, I am able to achieve control and perfection on the Strad. The most important thing to my playing is sound ... and it always will be.

Later down the road, I may purchase a shotblast RGS xeno since those models play so darn well. The sound isn't quite their yet for me on the Yammie though. Keep in mind that I have a different concept of sound than you do, so obviously our opinions will differ, as will everyone else's. I have in my mind what "I" think a trumpet should sound like, and my equipment is helping me achieve that for me. That's all that counts.

My 2nd pick from the Xeno line is the lacquered 8335G (Gold Brass) .. fine sounding and playing instrument.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

[_dcstep]

I don't know what to think of Camel's review. I've owned a 6335HS-Designer Yamaha with a large bell and a rounded main slide, I've also owned a 738 and 6310Z and I've played half a dozen 8335s and all had fine intonation (comparable to Bach) and great, consistant construction quality. I've played about 8 Vintage Ones in all configurations and they were not "superior" to the Yamahas, just different, IMHO.

If I recall, Camel said this new Yamaha played like "crap." Well, I find many of the new Yamaha kind of lifeless and mechanical, BUT they were consistant and easy to play in tune. If the valves were full of obvious crap, maybe the leadpipe and slides weren't clean. I really think when we review horns we need to make sure they're clean and well oiled.

I generally agree with Camel on just about everything he says, so I think there was something wrong with the horn he tried. Generally people that like 8335s and V1s are different people, although a lot of Bach players will like the 8335. I like the RGM or RGSM a lot, although it's not the horn for me (too tight, but so is a Bach 37 and a bunch of other horns). Generally I've found the intonation on the Yammys to be comparable to the Bachs. That means good but not great. Certainly I've never played a pro Yamaha that was "crap."

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[camel lips]

DC,

Thanks for the vote of confidence.This horn played like crap,trust me.

As I said if it were my horn I would have tried to clean it to see if the problem disappeared but that was not a option.When in another mans house you live by his rules.

The other two Yamaha horns did play better but still intonation was not as good as the V1 or a good Bach.

Ill try and track down one with a reverse lead pipe and see how that goes.

[oneeyedhobbit]

Strange. I can't say I've ever played a bad yammie. I would agree that the character didn't match up to my Vintage One, but the horn still played marvelously.

[_dcstep]

I'm wondering if we have a gap issue. I've used my 3C with the recent 8335RGs and didn't really have any problems with intonation; HOWEVER, back when I had the 6335HS-Designer I used a Reeves mpc with sleeves and noted that the horn responded best when used with the longer sleeves, as compared to the Bachs. The differing sleeves "locked" the horn in better, but it wasn't like the difference between "crap" and "magic."

(BTW, the 3C is NOT my primary mpc, but I keep one around for testing these smaller horns -- than my TT-- and to have a reference that more will connect with vs. the GRs. My 3C is a recent production unit that I got in exchange for the umbiguous 7C that came with my TT).

Maybe I should just give up on this one. I'll just say that, in my experience, current Bach, Conn and Yamaha horns are of the same feather, but with small differences in delivery. The Yamahas have tended to be the most "consistant" while the Bachs and Conns have tended to have more "character". Along with Getzen, Stomvi, Kanstul and Schilke, I think these are the horns that a prospect for a "pro" horn should try before making a choice. (BTW, if I left a brand out it may be because I haven't played a sample. Also, for those willing to spend more money, there are several other brands I'd list).

So, I don't doubt Camel's experience, but I'd suggest the "try for yourself" approach to anyone in a buying mode.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[_dcstep]

Oh, Camel, if you try other 8335s, remember that they can blow like a smaller horn. Maybe you've been overblowing. If going from one horn to another, start with the Yamaha, take a few seconds to buzz the leadpipe to get yourself connected with the horn, then spend some time on the horn without going back and forth with another horn.

Back when I played a Z, I tried out a pile of V1s. During the midst of the testing I picked up my Z and it was "unplayable". I was cracking notes right and left and couldn't get decent response above the staff. It was because I was seriously overblowing, by using the kind of blow required on the V1 to try to play the Z. (That doesn't work.)

I've found in general, when A/B-ing, the horn that requires more air and support usually comes out on "top" because it's easier to adjust your blow for a horn requiring more air than to scale your blow down for a horn that will not accept as much. I believe that a lot of people dismiss the Z because of this phenominum. The Z requires more precision, but less effort than many other horns. People that understand this can really connect with it, while people that don't adjust to it can't understand why so many like it.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[camel lips]

DC,

I thought about that.I did back off a bit and the responses did get a little better but not a whole heck of a lot.Perhaps a 10% improvement.

I am trying to scrounge up one with a reverse lead pipe to try out.I will keep ya ll posted.