Olds superstar question?

[camel lips]

One of the dealers has a b flat Olds superstar up for sale at a reasonable price.

Can anyone give me information about the Superstar line of horns?Are they a student horn or a intermediate?What was the quality like?

What kind of quality control did Olds have during this time period.?What is a realistic price for one in great condition?

I noticed while doing a search on the internet that the superstar line was made in the 70's and they made trumpets and trombones in the superstar line.

Thanks in advance.

[livertwist]

Hi,

I'm certainly no expert on this but from what I've read, the quality control at the Olds plant during the mid-late 70s was far lower than it had been in any other decade. In addition to that, I've read many posts where people simply didn't like the Superstars nearly as much as the Super, Studio or (super/)Recording. I'd hang on to your bucks and put it towards a 40s/50/early60s one of those horns instead. My two cents...

Oliver

[camel lips]

One interesting note I found about the Superstar was that the valves are not numbered and it did not matter what hole you put them in.

That sounded weird to me.

[bgwbold]

I would confirm much of what the other poster said, camel, except that I had always heard that Olds Custom horns were lumped in with the general negative comments regarding the later Olds horns. However, along with some other friends, I tried a 70s era Custom and all of us liked it. I also had a 70s era factory silver plated Mendez that was quite a nice playing horn, so I would just advise you to consider all of this and make your own decision after playing it.

The Superstar model was introduced rather late in the life of the company and did not really have a chance to catch on before the company went out of business, so it does not have a huge following like the more familiar models.

Mike

[bgwbold]

One more thing. About the interchangeable valves, Olds was experimenting with this on some horns. I think the first model to have this feature was the Pinto (which also did not go over well as a beginner instrument). It had another experimental feature, a plastic valve casing. You still find these on eBay from time to time.

Mike

[camel lips]

Thanks for you quick answers.

Sounds like I might forget about this one.

Most everyone I have spoken with this morning agrees that the 70's olds are not nearly as good as the 50's and 60's.

Something that has not been covered is this question.

Was the superstar more of a student line or Intermediate line.?

[_Happy Canuck]

I've always felt that the Super Star was an intermediate horn BUT if you check the 1978 Olds price list on Alan's site http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds78/olds78price2.htm it was priced the same as the Recording!!

You can also check here http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds77/suprstar.htm for the info in the 1977 Olds catalog.

From all the reading I've done, the later years for Olds (74+) would be the period I'd pass on.
_________________
Bill

Olds Mendez, Recording, Super, Special & Ambassador trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds Opera, Ambassador Shepherds Crook cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds L-12 Flug/GR Butcher 65.6FL
Schilke MII trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M

[camel lips]

Wow,Everything you want to know about a Olds is on that page.What a great site.

The horn I am looking at was made in 1977 according to that website.

I will keep yall posted.

[mheffernen5]

lol, I saw an Olds Pinto last night

[rebelatheart]

I used to own an Olds SuperStar, a 1974 model, if I remember. This is not your father's Olds,as they used to say. I would describe it as an interesting design that Olds didn't have time to perfect. By 1974, they came with the plastic (or nylon) valve tops mentioned above, which were JUNK (that's the nicest word I could think of). I did manage to find all brass valves from an earlier model which were much better. I had a chance to play it for a few months and switched back and forth between it and an Olds Fullerton Studio trumpet. I think I liked the warm tone of the Super Star and the more open blow compared to the Studio, but that's about the only positive thing I could say about it. Intonation with normal fingering was bad, and intonation with ANY alternate fingering was WAY off, I guess due to the weird design. Slotting was also not very good, very slippery. Valves were interchangable, but were also sloppy, and probably impossible to allign correctly. I guess Olds tried to make them fit "good enough". I think the Superstar is basically a fancy, upscale version of the Olds Pinto. Same straight through design. Olds was determined to try to make the valves interchangable to save money, then sell the concept of the straight through to the public as a great breakthrough, but I would regard the design (at least as executed) as a failure. If you're looking for a player, forget it. If you're looking for a novelty as a collector, then maybe.
_________________
"Daddy, this piccolo makes me want to cuss."

[camel lips]

Well,some olds collector snuck in and stole it out from underneath me.Such as life.

The horn I spoke of earlier was a Olds Superstar model flugelhorn in mint condition.It sold for $500 bucks.

It was a Identical copy of the Schilke flugelhorn.Here is what I was able to find out today.

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Miscellaneous.html

"Once upon a time, Schilke made a flugelhorn. It was a funny looking thing that had horizontal valves, with first and third valve slide rings, and a bass trumpet bell. It was quite long, as long as a Schilke B flat and shorter (i.e. narrower) than the flugelhorns with which we are more familiar. The bore was also somewhat larger than is typical of the common modern flugelhorns. (For a larger photo, go here.)

Schilke started making their flugel in 1967 and discontinued them in 1982. They were made in very small numbers, something like a total of 125 over the whole fifteen year period, according to a former employee. Many (most?) had the Yamaha valve casings and occasional inherent problem. Renold Schilke himself tried (unsuccessfully) to improve the horn in the 70's, tinkering with the design repeatedly, but the company discontinued the manufacturing flugelhorns after Schilke's death in 1982. The horn had so many little modifications while it was in production, many of the 125 are different from any of the others. Notwithstanding the considerable efforts to improve it, it remained unpopular with both the employees, who recognized it for the dog it was, and with flugelhorn purchasers. While it was an interesting horn, it was not much of a flugelhorn. I played one years ago, and I recall it being... interesting... that's it: it was interesting....

It wasn't so interesting, however, that it didn't have any influence. The Schilke flugelhorn was copied by F.E. Olds & Son, right down to the hexagonal valve buttons and caps, in the Olds Superstar model flugelhorn, an even more interesting horn. Perhaps not coincidently, it was released by Olds, then owned by Norlin, in the late 70s, shortly before the company went out of business. I am grateful to Lawrence Van Ameyde, who used to own one, for this information."



[ This Message was edited by: camel lips on 2004-05-03 19:27 ]

[ This Message was edited by: camel lips on 2004-05-03 19:33 ]

[camel lips]

This was a nice piece that got away.Such as life.

If nothing else it would have made a great conversation piece.

That one was a 1977 model.I would have preferred to found one closer to 1973 for a keeper.

Thanks to everyone who contacted me about this.You guys are always there for me.It was fun while it lasted.

Now I am going to my room to cry.bawahhahahaaa

[ This Message was edited by: camel lips on 2004-05-03 19:34 ]