New Flugelhorn suggestions?

aeterpllison · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:41 am Post subject:

What do you think are the best new flugelhorns? I have played the Conn Vintage One, Bach Strad, and Yamaha. I liked the Vintage One a lot more than the others, but I still want to play some more. Any suggestions? (in the $1,400ish range...not much more than that)

Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2026

Try a Kanstul and the Selmer Concept TT. I have also heard that the Lawler flugels are great. Also try a Courtois. I am not sure how much these cost but are problaly close to your range.

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Yamah 6310-Z GR 3S, 3MS
Bach 37, Blackburn 19-348 Leadpipe, GR 3M
Yamaha 631, GR 3FL

[ This Message was edited by: Jon Arnold on 2004-05-06 10:44 ]

_Don Herman · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:49 am Post subject:

Ditto the Kanstul. The Signature may be too much, but the Custom and Chicago are in there. I personally think it's worthwhile to try some of the higher end horns just to see what you get for the extra money -- you may end up wanting to save a bit longer. Of course, I'm biased, having MYF to keep me (or at least my sound) warm...

Be sure to try both Yamaha flavors -- they blow quite differently.

For that matter, check out Jim Donaldson's articles on the Schilke Loyalist site:

http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Flugelhorn%20Guide.html

HTH - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

Trptbenge · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:28 am Post subject:

It depends what you want to use the flugelhorn for and how much are you going to use it. After trying many flugelhorns at one time in a music store the Kanstul 1525 signature model was head and shoulders above everything else - including the Arturo Sandoval Leblanc, the Kanstul Chicago and the Courtois. The custom class Kanstul is excellent and significantly less then the signature model. The new Conn V1 is very good as well.

Now, if you are not going to use it a lot you could look for a used horn or look for a less expensive horn. I played a couple of gold plated Weril (Brazil made) flugelhorns that played great for $800.

On the bottom end I tried several Blessings (none played even decent) and three Jupiters (One was okay and the other two were very good) for $650 to $700 they weren't a bad buy. If I remember correctly the Kanstul 1525 was around $1800 to $1,900, the Chicago around $1,300, The Courtois was around $1,400, The Leblanc was about $1,450. When you look at these prices and how much people really play their flugelhorns then the lower priced flugelhorns don't look too bad. However, if you use it a lot and can afford the higher priced flugels go for it.

Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference!

aeterpllison · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:29 am Post subject:

Yeah, I use my current flugel quite a bit, being a jazz studies major...in big band as well as combos, so I am really looking for that higher end. Thanks for the info...now I have a better idea of what to test out when I make the trip to Woodwind Brasswind! By the way, how much do you think I could sell my Yamaha flugel for? It is a silver intermediate model with the horizontal slides. It is in very good shape....is $350-$400 reasonable?

[ This Message was edited by: aeterpllison on 2004-05-06 11:41 ]

eivsol · New Member Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 3

If you ever come over an old Couesnon flugelhorn, buy it.
The best you can get! but remember OLD!

aeterpllison · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:43 am Post subject:

My dad has a pretty old Couesnon flugel...it sounds SO good, but intonation is quite bad with it...worse than my Yamaha, I think. Anyway...he won't let me have it.

[ This Message was edited by: aeterpllison on 2004-05-06 11:43 ]

isler · Veteran Member Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 430

Hey man you should try a Lawler Flugel. I have had every flugel made and this is by far the best.

trumpetmike · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:19 am Post subject:

Get thee to ITG Denver, in June - the launch of the Eclipse flugel!!!!

Rumour hath that this could be the next big thing in flugels.
This is one of my reasons for going to ITG - despite living relatively close to where they are made!!

bgwbold · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:37 am Post subject:

I have owned a few trumpets over the years, but only one flugel, my old Yama 631.

Mike

bdev · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:56 pm Post subject:

Don't rule out Yamaha's 6310Z Bobby Shew model. I play one and find that it's in tune and also has a 3rd slide trigger that works great. You don't hear much about it on this forum but it's a good horn. It has a .413 bore and is a breeze to play.

_________________
Schilke B1L / GR e65M
Yamaha B.Shew Flugel / Curry 5FL
Olds Studio cornet / Yamaha 16E4/ Marcink 2S
Heimer Pocket Trumpet
Olds Studio Trumpet
Olds Ambassador Trumpet
Bach Strad 37

[ This Message was edited by: bdev on 2004-05-06 18:59 ]

_dcstep · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 4:32 pm Post subject:

If you decide on a V1, I have a friend with a mint (like new) satin silver finish. Send me a PM if you want his name and number ($1200).

Dave

_________________
Selmer-Paris Concept TT w/ GR66S/GR66MS
Yamaha 731 Flugel w/ GR66FL
http://www.dcjb.com http://www.pitpops.com

[ This Message was edited by: dcstep on 2004-05-06 20:17 ]

tom turner · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 6:38 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I don't recommend buying any horn you plan to make money on that is not both a great "player" and one that sounds "right."

While in one of the Army Bands I did a long quest back in '73 over several weekends, and in several states. before finding the best sounding and playing fluglehorn I could get. That flugle turned out to be, hands down, a new '72 Couesnon . . . which was also one of the cheapest too!!!

The "problem" with most flugles is finding one that SOUNDS right. Most get tubby on the bottom and some sound soooooo bright that you wonder if you are playing a flugle. Many don't "feel" right too as far as the blow. Then there is the intonation "problem" (which is usually a case of the owner purchasing a mouthpiece with the wrong shank for that model flugle (there are three common shanks flugles come in).

Through the years I've seen my trumpets come and go but that ol' Queenie stayed. Mine has no intonation issues . . . then again, I have a proper shanked mouthpiece and always have. The Couesnon has been called "The King of the Fluglehorns" for how it sounds.

Go for the smaller bore (.415-.425) sized flugles and avoid those horizontal slide things build around a common trumpet valve block in .460-type bore to save money . . . the bore has to open up too early and they just don't sound right to me.

MY RECOMMENDATIONS, from low to high:

1. Vintage Couesnon - If you can find a good one they can be had for $1,000 bucks or so! IMHO when a player shows up to a gig with a Queenie they generally know what they are doing.

2. Yamaha "Shew" model - Based on the Couesnon that Bobby once played

3. Kanstul 1525 - Based on the Couesnon but with Kanstul quality (some of the Couesnons ain't the best made)

4. Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" - The only flugle that has ever bested my Couesnon in every way and sent it into retirement and as fine a horn as any top trumpet.

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

trombapaul2 · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject:

I second Tom's assessment. I too had a 72' Couesnon Monopole Star but it
was stolen. I replaced it with a Shew model (6310Z) and have found there
to be little or no difference. It plays well (easily and in tune) in all registers.

Paul
_________________
"NEVER practice...ALWAYS perform" (Bud)

"NEVER look at the trombones...it only encourages them" (R. Strauss)

"What the hell does sound have to do with music?" (Charles Ives)

_dcstep · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject:

Tom, why isn't the Conn Vintage One on your short list? I think it's an excellent small bore flugel. Not trying to be argumentative, but wondering why you don't include it.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

_dcstep · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject:

Tom, why isn't the Conn Vintage One on your short list? I think it's an excellent small bore flugel. Not trying to be argumentative, but wondering why you don't include it.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:04 pm Post subject:

Aeterpllison,

There are a few flugelhorn message threads here where I wrote down what I thought of various horns. That may be valuable. (Or not)

Let me go way, way out on a limb and risk disagreeing with Don Herman. I found the Kanstul Chicago practically unplayable. It's a great sounding horn, and a great player, but with one deal-killing (for me) flaw: the third valve trigger. The trigger is high on the horn - between the bell and the tubing into the first branch. The trigger is operated by pulling horizontally, but your hands on the horn are positioned so you can only pull diagonally. It's a great horn for people who never play D's or C#'s.

In the interest of full disclosure, there is a school of thought that prefers the large bore flugels. The proponents would say that these play more like trumpets, and more of your trumpet technique carries over.

My experience/opinion with the Yamaha Shew is that they shouldn't even sell it in silverplate: it's way too bright up top. In lacquer, this is not so severe. Your mileage my vary.

Dave is also right to point out that Conn's V1 is a fine horn. I might buy one myself (the alternative is a Kanstul Custom, which I have not yet played). The horn has a lot of presence. If I were only doing solo/small combo work, I'd buy it in a minute.

Cheers,

Tom

romey1 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2003 Posts: 797

Conn V1

romey

bdev · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 4:50 am Post subject:

Tom, You're right about the silverplate on the Shew horns. Bobby Shew was against having his horn design in silverplate but Yamaha was thinking of sales....not sound.
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