The Good The Bad and The Ugly..Breaking news Report on my eb

musicmork · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1530

Here's the horn I bought....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3720680631&category=16214&sspagename=rvi:1:1

The good.... Arrived on time...well packaged....pretty nice case.....compression seems good....only ONE tiny dent...and various scratches etched along bell but overall the silver plate is 99% there and is a straight nice looking horn. Has a sweet tone and hits high notes. Blows openly..slots fairly well too.

The Bad....I could not believe it....the valves were SPONGY....oh man...so I re- oiled them and it helped a tiny bit...then I pulled out the valve springs and stretched them..which made the valves better but NOT like I expect from a GETZEN. Then the first valve tuning slide thumb trigger spring breaks !!!
So...I don't know what to do. The guy who sold it to me is a nice guy who probably didn't realize how awful the valves were being that he is really not a trumpet player anymore.

The UGLY : This could be a GREAT horn(I think)...but I don't want to invest any big money on getting the valves like they should be. As far as valve wear it was hard to tell but my Bach has more valve wear and they function great. Would new valve guides and springs help? I also noticed a slight leakage from the 3rd valve tuning slide...it had bubbles squeezing through where the slides meet.

What do I do? My girlfriend says to contact the seller and ask for my money back.

Any suggestions? I'm worrying aboout it now.

_________________
Mark
Trumpets:
'92 Bach Strad (Elkhart) Bb
'76 Getzen Severinsen Bb
'56 Olds Special (Fullerton)Bb
'54 Olds Ambassador (Early Fullerton)Bb
Keys/Pianos:Kurzweil PC-88,Yamaha S80,Korg 01Wfd,Hallet & Davis acoust

[ This Message was edited by: musicmork on 2004-05-06 21:03 ]

[ This Message was edited by: musicmork on 2004-05-06 22:56 ]

musicalmason · Veteran Member Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 214

Id get an estimate to see how much it would cost to make it work up to your standards, then use your best jusgement, you have to do it quick though so you can still ask for your money back if you want.

musicmork · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1530

Is there any way that I could make the valves work better withourt spending a fortune?

isn't there some kind of LAPPING compound?

What about small leakages?

How do I test for it?

Gilligan · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:13 pm Post subject:

Make sure both the valves and the valve casing walls are clean. You may have built up oil residue or other gunk slowing things down. I've used a small amount of Greased Lightning liquid degreaser on a soft 100% cotten cloth to remove the oil residue buildup from old rotary valves. I've have also used a fine polishing cream called MAAS to very gently remove oxidation from valve casings and piston walls. It's availible at Walmart for about $4.00. Again put a small amount on a soft cotten cloth or a finger and gentle rub the casing and piston. Your finger can sense variations in the surface your eyes will never be able to see. Your working to remove any oxidation and buildup not metal so go gently and slowly. Then buff the parts in the same manner.

Contact Getzen and ask about their valve warranty. They may be able to repair the valves under the lifetime valve warranty. I remember reading that they did that for someone else here in the TH Forum. They may do the saddle too for a small fee.

[ This Message was edited by: Gilligan on 2004-05-06 22:35 ]

musicmork · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1530

Gilligan,

Do you know if the lifetime valve warranties are transferrable?

The thumb TRIGGER's SPRING broke..that's not a big deal.

Maybe I'll call getzen first .

bgwbold · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:32 pm Post subject:

Definitely call Getzen. I had a sluggish valve on my horn and fixed it with a new set of springs that cost me 6 dollars. Sounds like a good horn, otherwise.

Mike

Gilligan · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:44 pm Post subject:

I don't know much about the warranty.

But, Getzen may catchup with this thread and answer himself.

And read the edit/addition I made to my prior post.

_PhilPicc · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:23 pm Post subject:

Marc,

You said you re-oiled the valves. If they were oiled with synthetic and you used petro- based or vise-versa you could have a real problem.

I would give the horn a good bath, make sure the valves and caseings are clean. Then oil and go from there. If that doesn't work then go to the techs.

There are a lot of good techs in the area. Try the cleaning first and quit screwing with the springs. Trigger springs don't last forever so that is not a big deal.

PM me if you are still having problems. Good luck,
Phil
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

goodfishe · Regular Member Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 20

i've read from an old King owner's manual that when you over-oil trumpet valves they tend to become "spongey" or soggy i would dissassemble the trumpet ask music store brass repair department on correct method and pocedure give all the parts incuding horn itself a good bath with lukewarm (not hot) dish soap and water and soak half hour including valves pistons springs and slides everthing for half hour and rinse assemble in same position and location all parts were taken apart carefull not to scratch or drop all parts or bang them up towel try avoid lint on cloth catching on the parts set out horn and all parts on clean dry towel and let dry overnight and rgrease all slides, re-oil valves pistons, casings try again and if still not woking good get your money back. this should be done once a month and 3 to 4 drops of Al cass fast trumpet valve oil inside valve casings every other day so they don't become "spongy" sluggish.or over oiled. your brass repair dept can help you with all the best ways to do all this stuff this is lengthy just trying to help good luck!

musicmork · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1530

Okay Guys (and Gals)...

Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it very much .
This is an awesome website!!!

Here's what I did with the valves........

First, I wiped the inside walls of the valve casings with a cotton cloth that I made into a snake. Then I wiped all the valve pistons dry.
After that, I took out ALL the springs (which I had earlier stretched) and replaced them with some less resistant springs that I had from a long time ago. Now the valves are moving with much more ease and there is no resistance from the casings that I can tell so far.
The valves are not real springy like my STRAD...BUT they move much more like the Getzen valves. Still not perfect yet..I think i'm on the right track.
So.... I'm going to call Getzen tomorrow and ask them to ship me a set of new valve springs, valve guides, felts, and a thumb trigger spring. (By the way a quick temporary fix for a lazy or broken thumb trigger spring is to use a rubber band and hook it up in such a way so it doesn't show from the right side and it makes the trigger work again)
I think I've got the problem solved but It's late and I'm tired and I have an early gig tomorrow and I am babbling on and on....yawn....
_________________
MARK /aka "musicmork"/ aka " The Creator "
TRUMPET: Getzen , Olds
MOUTHPIECES Bach 3-C, Schilke 13a4a
CORNET: Holton Galaxy (Awesome horn)
KEYBOARDS: Kurzweil PC88MX,Yamaha S-30, Casio Privia 575R

_Don Herman · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 5:33 am Post subject:

You could also drop a note direct to Bret, but checking with Getzen is probably best... They've a great rep for standing behind their horns, and I bet they fix you up right.

One word of warning: Many (many, many) rubber bands have high sulfur content. This will etch silver horns, and once etched it has to be buffed out (it's not just tarnish). Using string or some elastic cords (or, "stretchy things") is OK, but rubber bands could cause irreparable (or, at least difficult to repair) damage to a silver finish.

FWIWFM - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

livertwist · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 11:09 am Post subject:

Mark,

It sounds like you've got the problem fixed. I've bought lots of horns from eBay and there's 2 things you can almost ALWAYS count on: 1. you'll have to replace all pads, corks, felts and springs immediately, unless the seller did it and specifically mentions it.. and even then, you might have to swap out the springs to your preference. My shop charges a buck a spring, so you could buy 4 different tensions for $12.. and that's Canadian money.. pocket change for you guys in the States. 2. clean the horn. No matter what, you'll either have to bathe the whole horn or at least the valves to eliminate oil residue. THEN if your horn is still acting up, you might have something to complain about. I think the spring for a 1st valve trigger will set you back about 50 cents. ...and that's my two cents. Hope the horn works out for you..

Oliver

AverageJoe · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 11:23 am Post subject:

sounds to me like you have a really nice horn...if compression is good on valves, then aside from a chem clean and new felts/springs, you should be in outstanding shape! The trigger spring is no big deal at all...

Breathe easy -- you'll probably be happy after you make some minor tweaks here and there...

Horn of Praise · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 4:38 pm Post subject:

Hi Mark (musicmork),

My current Getzen, the third I have owned, works great with standard Getzen valve oil...but it really loves Blue Juce.

Give the horn a chance. It will "come around". I hope this helps. All the best.
_________________
PAUL NELSON - Eclipse White Lightning / Getzen Eterna 900 Classic / Monette B4LD / Blue Juice

camel lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 687

If the valves are worn,you might consider going to a thicker oil.I have found that sometimes jsut switching valve oil makes a bunch of difference.

musicmork · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1530

I've been using Al Cass fast oil for years.... and it seems to work pretty well.
This morning the valves were kind of lazy again..so I dunno.
I left Mary(from Getzen) a voice message at her work number...plus I also sent her an email.
She's helped me out twice before and I think she'll probably help me get this problem solved too.

Perhaps I'll just need a valve kit.
_________________
MARK /aka "musicmork"/ aka " The Creator "
TRUMPET: Getzen , Olds
MOUTHPIECES Bach 3-C, Schilke 13a4a
CORNET: Holton Galaxy (Awesome horn)
KEYBOARDS: Kurzweil PC88MX,Yamaha S-30, Casio Privia 575R

mheffernen5 · Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 9:10 am Post subject:

Maybe you could take it to a local music shop. They could probably cure it hopefully.

Horn of Praise · Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject:

Hi Mark (musicmork),

FWIW...my Getzen's have never worked well with Al Cass...and my Eclipse didn't like it either. It could very well be nothing more than an "oil" problem.

In my experience, Al Cass broke down quickly and left a residue that caused problems.

I hope this helps. All the best.
_________________
PAUL NELSON - Eclipse White Lightning / Getzen Eterna 900 Classic / Monette B4LD / Blue Juice

musicmork · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1530

Hi Paul,

You might be right..I dunno.

But I have been using Al Cass on all my horns (that includes several Getzens) and it never was a problem before so.....

I'm gonna see what new springs and guides will do first.

musicmork · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1530

BTW...what kind of valve oil do you use ?