Purpose of the 2nd valve slide

jgadvert · Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:26 pm Post subject:

Another episode of "From the stupid question department":

What exactly is it's purpose?. Is it for intonation/tuning for the all notes involving the second valve?. Airflow help? . Do Benges/F. Bessons having it slant forward towards the bell make a significant difference vs. the other way? Have there been any other designs tried other than the above?

All I know is..it's usually the stickiest slide to remove...and generally gets in the way when playing.

mafields627 · Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:34 pm Post subject:

It's purpose is so that when the second valve is depressed, the tubing is long enough for that particular fundamental.
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elbobogrande · Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 9:05 pm Post subject:

I assume you're talking about the purpose of its being moveable. That's so you can take it out to clean the horn, or so I've heard. I can't think of any other reason that one would want to move the slide as it's on there rather precariously to begin with.
John
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thegambler · Regular Member Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 35

Perhaps, if one were playing the solo from the second movement of Pines of Rome, the slide could be pulled out a bit, so the third of the outlined chord(b natural) would be in tune.

alanbach · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 12:34 am Post subject:

How would you clean that area if you didn't have a slide? That in itself serves the purpose of installing the slide.

bgwbold · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:33 am Post subject:

Some horns do not come with moveable slides, and you sure miss being able to clean the horn using the slide.

Mike

_gmdean · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 8:26 am Post subject:

Have a look at the front of the Arbans book, the are instructions on setting your horn up so it plays in tune with itself. You use alternate fingerings to tune the three valve slides. I would guess this isn't such a problem on modern horns, particularly with 1st and third triggers and modern construction and metals. It's still an interesting excersise though, my 1965 Bach 37 "needs" about 2.5mm on the second slide, guess normally we learn to lip the difference . I recently played a holton cornet that was an exact copy of a 1890's (?) besson and mid space C was flat so I guess old horns had more serious intonation issues. Many also had different slide sets for different keys and there were also two seperate orchesteral tunings in the USA and europe.

Hopefully someone who plays a really old horn will be able to chip in.

Mark

Mark

tom turner · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 5:18 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Musically, a movable second valve slide on a Bb trumpet, cornet or fluglehorn is/was useful a bunch back in the days when some repertoire called for the instrument to play in "A."

Additionally, the movable-ended 3rd valve slide on a Bach trumpet was useful to the same reason . . . allowing all three valve slides to be pulled their appropriate lengths to transform the instrument to the key of "A" and still allow the third valve ring to be kicked out to lower the low D and Db.

Although it could be argued that most never pull their slides and learn to tune their trumpet to play in tune in the key of A, some "nuts" like me still sometimes prefer the sound of the fluglehorn when pitched in the key of "A" on certain occasions.

Through the 1930's a tremendous amount of cornets and trumpets still had the valve slides factory marked to pull 'em to "A" quickly and most had nut-adjustable slide pull stops (similar to today's Bach-type third valve slide stop) on the TUNING slides to also allow a player to make fast pulls to pitch the horn in "A" quickly and "accurately."

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

boofredlay · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject:

Tom... you never seize to amaze me.
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_Daff · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 1431

Come on you guys, we all know the second valve slide is there to collect just enough spit to add a nice girgle to your solo. Geez, not rocket science.

Mikeytrpt · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 5:07 am Post subject:

And when you pull out the slide to empty the water, it spills all over your tux.

_ConnMan · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 5:47 am Post subject:

I thought it was an easy way to oil your 2nd valve without having to undo the top cap.

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jgadvert · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 6:38 am Post subject:

Ok...so far it looks like it is there:

1) To allow for proper tuning of all notes using the second valve.
2) To be a repository for an excess littlle bits of whatever that would cause the valve to stick.

Although it looks like #1 is the primary reason.

_gmdean · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 7:32 am Post subject:

Forgot:

3 Visual check of valve alignment, suspect not everyone would agree with tec who told me that.
4 Compression check.

Mark

jgadvert · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 9:26 am Post subject:

Hey GMDEAN:

Thanks! Thats right..

3) you can pop off the slide for a quick check on alignment.

BTW:

I was thinking of making this another "stupid question post"

Is there a basic compressesion test one can do inexpensively/easily to give an idea on compression levels of valves?