Gold vs Silver ???

tptwannabe · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:41 am Post subject:

As a combacker, I'm surprised by the number of people with gold plated horns these days. Back when I was getting started, everyone had mostly laquer horns, then silver got hot in the late 70's.

Is there a particular advantage to gold plating? Is it purely a personal preference or status thing, or are there performance characteristics, or durability issues involved?
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drtrumpet1 · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:44 am Post subject:

There are many opinions on the plating of a horn. Some will swear by their particular preference; others do not worry so much. What I've heard about gold plating is that it lets you have a dark but focused sound, useful for orchestra playing. Of course, this takes us into the realm of what we mean by dark, etc.... By dark I mean not brassy or lead jazz trumpet sounding. Any other takers?

WFUnix · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Aug 2003 Posts: 433

I prefer gold plated instruments because gold resists the acids in my hand better. My silver horns over the years have had finish problems around the contact areas that my gold plated trumpet has not.

[ This Message was edited by: WFUnix on 2004-05-28 10:47 ]

drtrumpet1 · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:48 am Post subject:

josephus07 · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 8:07 am Post subject:

Here's something to discuss...

Scott Laskey said that theoretically a gold horn should be able to be BRIGHTER than any other finish. I didn't catch his explanation, but here's something interesting...

Gold can be applied EXTREMELY THIN, much thinner than silver or lacquer. However, the gold can't be applied to raw brass. So if you have to plate it with silver first, you can get as thin a silver plating as possible (much more thin than a standard silver plate) and then apply the gold on top of that. The end result is a really thin plating that resists corrosion more than silver and allows the metal to vibrate more freely...ANY THOUGHTS?

camel lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 687

I have also read here and elsewhere,where the properties of gold allow the horn to heat up much quicker and hold heat better than silver or Lacquer.

I still love the looks and feel of silver plate but its a pain to take care of.

All things considered gold has lots of advantages.

BruceB · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 8:16 am Post subject:

My Getzen 3001 is gold plated and the sound is much brighter than the silver Wild Thing that I had before. The horn even feels lighter so go figure. I think the ones that are darker sounding have a thicker plating on them. The amount of silver applied first would definitely make that difference.
I did hear from a couple different people that gold doesn't wear out like silver or laquer. Having never had a silver one wear through I can't attest to that but it makes sense.
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crzytptman · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 8:18 am Post subject:

Yes, I have thoughts . . .

with that scenario I agree. That should be the closest to raw and provide excellent protection. What usually happens is that a regular silver plate horn is overplated with gold where it becomes a purely cosmetic issue. I like this idea of the super thin plate.

Nate
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Levermann · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 8:20 am Post subject:

A black trumpet sounds darker than the same trumpet painted white.
Guess why !

drtrumpet1 · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 8:34 am Post subject:

The Stomvi Master horns come with two bells - one is solid sterling silver, and isn't the other a sterling silver with gold plating?

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

I believe that the normal thickness for gold plating (when done over silver) is between 3 and 5 MICRONS! Since a micron is 0.0004 inch, then 4 micron is only 0.0016 inch. I believe that silver goes on a bit thicker than that so perhaps this is why it is claimed by some that gold plate leaves the sound much like raw brass whereas silver brightens the sound.

To tell the truth, I think that one would have to take two identical raw brass horns (does such a thing exist?) and plate them one in silver and one in gold and then do some kind of blind test comparison to see if there is a difference in the sound.

I did a half-a$$ed estimation of the surface area of a trumpet being plated (including "up the throat") and came up with a number indicating that one would use about 1/2 ounce of gold (at today's price of $400 US/ounce?) to cover a horn with gold at the 4-5 micron thickness. Perhaps someone more "in the know" could confirm/deny that info?

ARB · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 9:51 am Post subject:

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

I think it could be, ARB; but perhaps not with the results in terms of appearance and durability. I guess I should have said "gold plated over silver in the traditional manner" vs. "silver plated in the traditional manner" ... which is what I meant.

If gold plated has to be done over silver... then so be it. I suspect that, in these cases, the silver "undercoating" is much less thick than it would be if the horn were being sold "silverplated".. and perhaps this is where the tonal difference comes from.

trumplyr · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 10:43 am Post subject:

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

Whups.... the infamous "dropped zero" strikes again. Of course you are right, Marty.

veldkamp · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 12:55 pm Post subject:

I had a raw brass trumpet and gave it a brushed gold 24k finish. There was no silver involved, the gold finish was put on the raw brass (because it was brushed). I noticed no difference in sound.

First they wanted to give it a copper layer before goldplating it but it wasn't neccessary. In the early years they nickelplated the horn before goldplating it. That really makes a difference !
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Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

Deleted... double post.

[ This Message was edited by: Tootsall on 2004-05-31 11:53 ]

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

I don't know about nickel plating, etc..... I'm just going from what Leigh McKinney of Eclipse told me when I was quizzing him about the two horns that he did (had done) for me. He did say that you COULD put gold directly over brass but did not define what the circumstances might be. He also said that when "MOST" platers do a gold finish they put a flash coat of silver on first and then the gold plate. Since a "flash" coat is VERY thin and gold IS thin, I'm presuming that the total coating thickness is still thinner than an all-silver plated finish.

And, of course, either one is far thinner than lacquer!

bkmdano · Veteran Member Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 328

According to John Lynch, gold plating can be applied to raw brass. Mr Lynch gold plated my Raw brass Lawler and a 2nd bell which was silver plated. There is no difference in the look. Both look identical as far as the gold plating is concerned. As far as sound is concerned, I don't think the gold plate made a difference. Of course the TL6r is already a dark sounding horn. The horn turned out beautiful.
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Sooner · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 11:11 am Post subject:

When I inquired about having my 38B gold plated I was told that gold plating over nickel plating will wear extremely fast. It was strongly suggested that I get the horn stripped, then silver plated, THEN gold plated if I was set on that route.
Clearly I have decided to stick with the nickel plating, even thought the horn weighs a ton and the finish is a little dull after I stripped off the laquer.
I do have to say that once that coating of laquer came off the horn plays infinatly better. At least to my ears it does, and thats what really matters.
Unfortunatly it now has a very dull finish. Anyone know how to polish nickel? So far neither silver polish nor brass polish has had any effect.
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