Advice Needed: Is This A Questionable Buyer?

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

I have a horn up for sale on eBay. It's a vintage Martin Committee. Today I received an email from a guy in Canada who apparently wants me to remove the horn from eBay and buy it at "a fair Price". Is this legit? Have others of you run into this sort of thing before? Below is his actual email message.
Larry

Goodday,
I am interested in your Vintage Martin Committee Bb Trumpet and will like to purchase it by all cost because i have been searching for it for a long time.I will like you to give me your best price with a full and recent update on the condition with some pictures of it.I am based in Canada but payment will be made by my associate in US which he told me he would be paying with a certified cashiers check which i guess should be the best method with you.I will arrange for the shipping myself,so you dont need to bother yourself about shipping.
I will need the neccessary details for the issuing of the check (Fullname, Address and Phone number). My name is KARL BRENT and i hope to have a trustworthy and honest transaction with you.

Expecting your mail.
Thanks for your anticipated cooperation.

Regards,
Karl...

Schilkeguy · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject:

If you have a reserve on it, you could tell him that if it doesn't go off above your reserve, he could buy it at reserve. Otherwise, name your own price and tell him that you will only send the horn when you get the money (the check would have to clear). If he doesn't agree, tell him to bid on it like everyone else. Then you can just treat it like a normal ebay auction.
_________________
Trumpets: Schilke B5, Schilke CX4L, Old style Selmer Paris Picc
Mouthpieces: GR65L, 65**** lead, B&S 7E picc
Age: 18

Rootnote Rex · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject:

Hmmm... sounds shaky

I had someone ask if I would sell off of E Bay before (obviuosly for an item I had listed with E Bay). I politely advised him I wouldn't, and all he needed to do was be the high bidder to get the item.

Good luck.

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

1. It is a violation of ebay rules to end early and sell off ebay.

2. It is not ethical to put an item up for auction intending to sell to the person willing to bid highest and then make a deal on the side.

3. Given the above, whether the buyer is legit is actually not the issue. The real issue is whether a seller willing to do business this way is legit.

If you can't tell, I have strong feelings about doing business through ebay this way. The strength of my feelings is based on a belief that a market place like ebay where strangers send money to strangers for items that are yet unseen is totally based on trust. So, anything that threatens this trust is really a problem for me and the others who regularly buy and sell on ebay.

The bottom line is this. You placed it on ebay to auction it off fairly. If you are a stand up seller, tell him to bid. If it doesn't reach reserve.... email him then. I never end an auction early. Why.... cause it ain't OK.

[ This Message was edited by: supportlivejazz on 2004-05-31 20:39 ]

Trptbenge · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject:

Larry,

That is good advice. He may be legit but I would be careful and not pull it off ebay. Makes sure his check or preferably a Money Order in USD's clears before you send the horn. Good Luck!

Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference!

bebop · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject:

I had the same guy just e-mail me about a Shew horn I have on the Trumpet Herald. My e-mail had the exact same wording. I don't know what to think about it. He says he will pay with a bank check.
Jim

heavyharmonies · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject:

RUN AWAY!

This is a known scam method on Ebay: so-called 3rd-party checks and money orders that are fake. By the time it gets cleared up you're out both the merchandise and the funds.

Even on the .1% that this particular individual is legit, I wouldn't touch this under ANY circumstances.

-Dan

[ This Message was edited by: heavyharmonies on 2004-05-31 20:47 ]

musiclifeline · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:51 pm Post subject:

Wow, I'm glad I did a search on this guy on the Forum before entering into a transaction with him... I got an email about my '74 Bach Strad on the Marketplace with the exact same wording. Not sure what made me check here first... weird. Whew, and thanks!

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Okay, thanks guys you've convienced me. The horn stays on eBay and he can bid on it if he's interested like everyone else.

Jim
That's interesting too that you got the same email. Hmmmm....
Larry

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

Amen.
_________________
2 Olds Amb. LA Trumpets
'39 Olds Super
'48 Holton Model 48 Trumpet
'49 Martin Committee Trumpet
'59-'60 f. Besson Brevete Trumpet
'39 Blessing Artist Trumpet
'60's King Silver Flair
'48 Olds Special Cornet
'77 Getzen Flugel

[ This Message was edited by: supportlivejazz on 2004-05-31 20:54 ]

bebop · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject:

I won't sell to this guy. But, it is someone that at least reads or posts on the Trumpet Herald.
Jim

_Japle · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject:

If you want to do a non-eBay deal, go through Escrow.com. I sold a batch of software to a guy several months ago through them and had no problem at all.
_________________
John
Cape Canaveral

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:46 pm Post subject:

So, the question in my mind is "why won't this guy bid for it?". If it's to insure he gets it, he should bid high - that's what an auction is all about. "Sell it to me now so I won't get outbid" seems like a position that won't help YOU any.

If you do decide to go off Ebay, I see a number of people who say, "wait until the check clears". Unfortunately, that's not enough. There are a number of scam artists using counterfeit checks. In this case, the check clears, then it's discovered to be counterfeit, and then the bank takes the money out of your account. You're left holding the bag.

Cheers,

Tom

_PhilPicc · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject:

If you enter into an agreement (EBay), honor the agreement. That should not be a tough decision.
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

I agree with the previous posters: if you've listed on Ebay, leave it on Ebay until it is sold or the auction expires. If nobody has bid on it and you are comfortable with the guy's offer (I wouldn't be in this case), then you can still set or reset a reserve price at what you think is 'fair'... but I'm betting that you did that in the first place.

If this character is running around making offers to folks to pull their bids, then Ebay should be told about it. I can understand asking maybe one person... but when several of you receive the same offer? vewwy shady!

Also, a person's place of registration is NO guarantee that's where he's actually sitting: I've purchased from what I thought were Canadian vendors (maybe they were, maybe they weren't) and the goods were shipped out of the US (and nothing in the Auction notice to indicate such). Post office boxes can be rented by just about anyone and an internet address might be right... or might be spoofed. (And I get the spam to prove it!)

Good luck with your auction: I hope you get your price.

TimBrown · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 8:03 pm Post subject:

Hi:

WHen I sold my Strad on Ebay a year ago, I got an email from a guy in Germany who expressed such interest.

WHat I did was inform him that it was a US only auction but then told him what the cost would be to Germany. I then changed my auction (no bidders yet) so that I had a "buy it now" that included the shipping. I then said "here's your chance"....and told him that I would take PayPal.

He bought it, and it worked out. THe horn can be seen (for those who care) at http://www.hoferblech.de. THe lacquer job.

Anyway, I was spooked about him. I wasn't going to end the auction early and figured this would be a good way to call his bluff. He was fairly polite about his forcefulness...he even tried to make an offer on the shipping amount. Doing what I did got it under control very quickly....and got the horn sold.

For whatever it's worth. Remember, it's YOUR horn.

Tim
_________________
Getzen 900 DLX
Kanstul Meha .470
L.A. Benge 3x+ 9879
1912 Holton New Proportion cornet
Kanstul CCF 925 flugel
King 1122 MFH

10 out of 10 people die. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

oldblow · Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:58 am Post subject:

Supportlivejazz, having worked in auction houses as a student, having bought a lot of stuff through auction, and having been a seller for a long time on ebay, I can only second your listed remarks and to say, "Right On! Buddy! "

The point is one of trust, and the only way to maintain trust is universal standards of trust, honesty, and ethics. Those things do exist; and if you don't believe they do, try dealing without them.

Thanks for the great post.
_________________
Felton (Butch) Bohannon

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:31 am Post subject:

I like the reference to the "US brass shortage of 1942". That's a tactful way for a German to put it. See http://www.hoferblech.de

Dave

_________________
Selmer-Paris Concept TT w/ GR66S/GR66MS
Yamaha 731 Flugel w/ GR66FL
http://www.dcjb.com http://www.pitpops.com

[ This Message was edited by: dcstep on 2004-06-01 14:31 ]

JoeCool · Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject:

I see Larry has decided to do the appropriate thing. It is a matter of ethics. But for anyone else watching this thread, besides ethics, the rules are there for a reason. As long as you agree to and abide by the rules, Ebay offers protection from fraud as is legally possible. That could mean a long time to a recovery, but that's better than getting ripped off totally. Once you break the rules, there is no recourse and Ebay cannot help you with your problem.

Ebayscrounger · Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:37 pm Post subject:

I frequently get just the opposite...I will bid on a horn, then I will get an Email from someone telling me they have the same type of horn for sale off Ebay, only nicer and for less money. These Emails I delete as soon as I see them. I agree with several other posters in that Ebay is a great community, but we need to maintain the integrity. I have never taken a horn off that had bids, unless I had an error of some sort in my listing. Then I would correct it and immediately relist the horn. I have had horns with no bids and not much interest generated that I have pulled to send off for repair or whatever, but never to sell off Ebay.
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Still looking for my horn...