is Monette style acceptable

[SilverTrumpet]

I am going to school and will be taking lessons from a monette player. I personally love Bach. But then again thats really all I've played. My teacher next year will most likely have me playing on a monette mouthpiece, and with the style of monette playing. Whatever that is. When I had a lesson with him he was trying to get me to play lower on the pitch and get a more centered sound. He said he was trying to make my playing more efficient. Is this something that Bud would say "BAHH!" to. Or is it accepable. I really don't know. My goal is to become a professional musician and the dream is to be a symphony player. I won't play on a Monette trumpet because A. I dont have the money and B. I wont get the gigs. But is that style of playing bad?
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It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish.

~J.R.R. Tolkien

[O-Ring]

/...........no it is not.

[fuzzyjon79]

Monette really isn't a style... it's just equipment... some people love it, some people think it's okay, and some people think that Dave Monette is ripping people off charging them $300 for a mouthpiece... I have never played on Monette equipment and never will because I simply can't afford to spend that much money. As far as what Bud would say... he would probably say play on the equipment that YOU are comfortable with, always perform even when practicing, and play with authority. Bud played Bach.. and sat as principal of the CSO for MANY years.
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J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

[spleeahhhh]

Don’t confuse playing with a centered sound with “you must use a Monette to play in tune”.

Playing with a centered sound (or resonant sound) isn’t something you need a Monette for and it isn’t what I would call a “style”, it is just good playing. I also believe that the “concepts” on the Monette web site are ideas you should use no matter what horn you play.

It is ok if your teacher really insist on you trying the Monette gear, but he should not force you to play on it long term. But it really sounds like your teacher was just pushing good sound concepts nothing Monette specific.

[_Don Herman]

Comments my own opinion, please take as such...

1. You are taking lessons from a musician who's trumpet player, hopefully, who happens to play Monette. Some teachers will push you toward particular equipment; the trick is to figure out when it's in your interest and not their interest. I don't mean monetarily, though I suppose that could happen, but because the want a particular sound or just feel their horn/mpc/whatever would help you. Maybe yes, maybe no. Are you sure "most likely" is true? He might have you try one, but I'd hope wouldn't force it upon you.

2. There is no "Monette style" per se. However, Dave does advocate a relaxed playing posture etc. and (as I understand it) is big on maintaining that "style" throughout your range (registers and dynamics). Search TH for articles on "pitch center" and you'll find quite a bit of info, virtually none tied directly to Monette. Relaxed playing will make most anybody sound good.

3. Don't know what Bud would say, except to keep the music in mind and play to that mental sound. It can be amazing (quite eye-opening) to discover just how much a focused mind can drive the body without having to think about each little muscle.

4. Playing high on pitch can cause your sound to be "thin" or "pinched". It make take a bit for you to recognize what a "resonant" sound is like, how to match intonation, etc. Once you hear the difference, you'll be surprised you didn't hear it before. It really is magical, and one of the keys to the big sound from so many top orchestras.

Does your teacher have a sound you like? Proven symphonic experience, good rep for that, etc.? If so, follow the sound. If not, think about it. You may learn a lot from him, but want to build a suitable (sizeable) library of recordings to form the basis for your own sound model. Even in the symphonic world, there's a lot (LOT!) of variation in trumpet sound from player to player and piece to piece.

The Chicago school bases teaching on sound, and the mind's subconscious ability to focus the body on making that sound. There is a lot of physical technique involved, but development is driven by a sound model. If your teacher is having you listen and work to emulate his sound, then I'd not worry too much about what horn it comes from As long as it's the sound you want to emulate. Even if not, the exercise of learning to follow a sound model is very valuable. You're going to have to develop the ability to play the piece how the composer and conductor think it should be played (sometimes very different styles!) and match the sound they want to hear.

Lots more, but enough for now, and (especially) from me.

As for comments on Monette equipment, well, never say "never"...

HTH - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[SilverTrumpet]

thanks for the imput everyone. I have taken it to heart and I am not as worried. Bud is my hero and it is the sound and style that I want. He will definitely have me try the mpc. but I'm not sure if he will try and make me use it. I do know that everyone in his studio does play on a monette mouthpiece. I was just looking for advice on whether the whole idea of playing on that stuff is detrimental to the "standard" (risky to use that word, i hope you understand) way of playing. thanks again
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It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish.

~J.R.R. Tolkien

[kevtrpt]

Are you talking about Eric Berlin at UMass? I'm a student of his at UMass and I don't play a Monette mouthpiece. He is a huge fan of monettes, but regardless of equipment his concepts included playing low or on the base of the pitch pyramid for sound size shape color and blending. In fact, when I switched from a Monette mpc, he helped me out with finding a conventional mpc. If you want to talk about this more, send me an e-mail or IM me.

[Mzony]

I am always REALLY skeptical when someone insists upon playing particular equipment.
However, I am even more skeptical of people claiming to be teaching certain styles or methods.
The best teachers I have ever had taught me how to learn several things at once:

1) Play the trumpet as efficantly as possible at the time.
2) Show me the various stylistic requirements and conventions of a large variety of repertoire.
3) Teach me to find my own voice.
4) Teach me how to use my voice in as many settings as possible.

Mike

[kevtrpt]

Eric Berlin (if that's who we're talking about here) is a monster orchestral player regardless of equipment. And around the time he won the UMass teaching job he was a finalist for Bud's CSO job. He has tremendous experience with sound concepts, section playing, orchestral style, and other info about orchestral trumpet playing. He's an incredibly efficient player and I've heard him play both on Monette mpcs and horns as well as Bach horns and mpcs. You need to understand Monette equipment before judging it. I've noticed in his playing, and others tell him this too, that he does not really have a Monette sound...but it's definitely one of the fullest and biggest you'll ever hear. It's not the equipment, but what you do with it. His teaching is based mostly on Charlie Schueter. So take that info and apply it to your sound concept. There are Charlie students that sound entirely different than he does...i.e. Tom Rolfs.

[SilverTrumpet]

Hey, I guess the question was asked mostly because I don't understand Monette equipment. I was trying to find out what people would think about that. Kevtrpt... yeah it's Eric. Do you play in the Umass symphony orchestra? If you did I think I met you at the last concert you guys had, when Eric played the Hummel? Thanks for the input
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It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish.

~J.R.R. Tolkien

[MisterE]

A Monette trumpet is simply a tool as is any other make of trumpet. Style comes from the player and not the hardware- period. Listen to your teacher, listen to recordings, and search to develop and refine a solid concept of what YOU want to sound like. Once you have a good idea of what you want to build, you can decide whether the Craftsman or the Skil power drill is best suited to the task. Cheers.

[MidNiteHorn]

Speaking of equipment, just two weeks ago I bought locally a 1956 Olds Super Model made in the original Fullerton, CA plant. I've always liked Olds and the Studio model was my first "purchased" horn way back in 1951. Well, this Super is in mint condition. Its owner bought it for high school and after that he never played it again. Its been in its case for over 40 years! Its like brand new. If there's a scratch on it I can't find it.

Well, I believe its a .460 bore but it is really free-blowing and has tremendous projection, a great sound and well centered. The valve action is extremely fast and smooth (typical of Olds earlier products).

I've been playing my 1974 L.A. Benge model for many years but I've switched to this Olds....its easier to blow and I like the sound much better. It is said that during the 40's, '50s and '60s the Olds Super was very popular with big band leads and soloists. (Rafael Mendez played an Olds Super for many years I believe, before Olds came out with the Mendez signature model).

I guess my point is, you don't have to buy a really expensive instrument to get a good sound and all the other desirable qualities. There are good moderately priced instruments out there. You do have to know what to look for and this comes with experience, which if lacking, you find someone experienced to help you make a selection(s) and try it out for you. I know that I could take a horn to one of the principal trumpet players in my area and he/she would gladly try it out for me and give his/her opinion as to its handling and playing characteristics. Even if they charged a fee for this service it would be worth it, but I think most would do it gratis.

Don Olmsted
Albertville, MN
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"He who knows every note more thoroughly understands the effect".

[Carl_Hess]

BTW..Bud actually played a Chicago Monette for a while in the CSO. Yep, its true folks

[Billy B]

Then went back to Bach because he couldn't get "The Sound" .

[jkramb19]

he went back to bach, not because he didn't like the sound, but because others told him he didn't sound like bud anymore.
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[JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR]

Hio Silver! Monette mouthpieces are great for the most part. Try a few different sizes like B2, B1.5, B4 and any others you can lay your hands on. I have seen Monette mouthpieces instantly cure some problems for both trumpets, and for the trumpeters who play them. I also know that they are definitely not for everyone as well, as there are so many differences in styles and players, but do give them a real serious chance. Try out as many as possible to have the best opportunity to find the one that might just be magic for you!

The "Monette style" you mentioned is really more of a philosophy of how to play, than a playing style. Hope that makes sense... It emphasizes total relaxation of the body and mind, as well as the correct use of the entire body. You may hear some trumpeters making fun of some of Dave's ideas (and his trumpets), but these folks often speak without really knowing. I suspect there is a little jelousy going on here, perhaps a bit of "trumpet envy". I can assure you, however, that Dave Monette's philosophies and trumpets are right on the money (no pun intended).

The "sound" a Monette player gets is absolutely a funtion of the equipement. Monette horns produce such a beautiful tone that just drips out the end of the bell like honey; dark and warm, but with a certain sparkling quality to it as well. Some think of them as more of a solo instrument, as their sound can indeed get a bit lost in a section of Bachs. They say the Monettes don't blend well with other horns, but I bet if most players could afford to own Monette trumpets, they'd all be saying that the other horns don't blend well with Monettes. I hope you get my meaning...

If you land a job in a top notch orchestra some day, you will probably be required to own and play whatever make and model the principle player happens to prefer. They usually feel that this helps to achieve the very best possible blend. I don't think it all makes that much difference. I've never heard anyone at a symphony performance say that the music was ok except for that one trumpeter who had a different brand of trumpet than all the others. I think this is mostly a brass and woodwinds thing, you'd never hear of anything like this among percussionists or string players...

Don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings here. Hope this helps... Tom in Texas

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7 Stomvis, 6 Monettes, 9 Taylors, 8 Courtois
7 Lawlers, 4 Leblancs, 5 Bessons, 6 Kanstuls
3 Benges, 2 Blackburns, 8 Schilkes, 9 Bachs
8 Yamahas, 5 Committees, 1 Edwards Gen X
4 Marcinkeiwicz, 7 Selmers, 3 Harellsons and
1 Eclipse

[ This Message was edited by: JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR on 2004-08-24 18:33 ]

[ This Message was edited by: JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR on 2004-08-25 11:51 ]

[Trumpet4Hire]

The question of Monette style regarding to who? If Schlueter I would say "NO." You need to articulate.

I fell that the sweet spot of the sound is "up" instead of down. Too many people play with their slides too far in and "lip down," resulting in a spready "piggish" sound.

T4H

[JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR]

Just wanted to add one more thing. I have found one horn on the market that comes extremely close to getting that "Monette sound" for much less money. It is the Edwards Generation X model trumpet. I know some of you are already shaking your heads without ever even having played one, but if you know you want that sound, and you just dont have that much money, I highly recommend giving these horns a try. Try to test one with the big bore, big bell, big leadpipe, the works! Its a killer of a horn, still quite expensive, but not like the money you have to give up for the Monettes. Again, I hope this helps someone out there... Tom in Texas
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7 Monettes, 9 Taylors, 8 Courtois, 8 Stomvis
7 Lawlers, 4 Leblancs, 3 Bessons, 3 Kanstuls
2 Blackburns, 9 Schilkes, 8 Bachs, 5 Selmers
8 Yamahas, 5 Committees, 2 Edwards Gen X
4 Marcinkeiwicz, 9 Harrelsons, and 4 Eclipses

[JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR]

Hi Trumpet4hire, I've never heard of a piggish sound before, but I think I'll just leave that one alone. With all due respect, your thoughts about the sweet spot being located higher may well be true for you, but after teaching literally hundreds of students how to play trumpet over a thirty year period, I can tell you without a doubt that the vast majority of trumpeters need to aim their pitch lower. They tend to pinch too much, and the truth is that they have their tuning slides out too far to compensate for this problem. At least 70-80% of all trumpet students need to sit on those notes more, and bring them down to find the center where they will really resonate.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't true for all players, but almost all need to relax and let that pitch come down to find that sweet spot. Don't mean to offend at all, just want to help. Perhaps others will chime in on this one... Tom in Texas
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7 Monettes, 9 Taylors, 8 Courtois, 8 Stomvis
7 Lawlers, 4 Leblancs, 3 Bessons, 3 Kanstuls
2 Blackburns, 9 Schilkes, 8 Bachs, 5 Selmers
8 Yamahas, 5 Committees, 2 Edwards Gen X
4 Marcinkeiwicz, 9 Harrelsons, and 4 Eclipses

[_Don Herman]

If we're going to switch to talking equipment, I'll move this to the Horns Forum. Just FYI... I thought the original question was adequately answered? - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley