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Strawdoggy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 1219 Location: Carlisle, PA
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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In teaching music, there are certain truths which are black and white. They include, but are not limited to: rhythm, articulation, fingerings, dynamics, transpostions, key signatures, and chord spellings. Although teachers may use a different approach in their instruction of these truths, student performance of these concepts can be evaluated as either correct or incorrect.
Black and white is not the case when teaching the physical aspects of playing a brass instrument. Many successful performers and teachers use different embouchures and approaches to teaching the same. It becomes more difficult to make the "correct/incorrect" determination here. If a student has a poor tone or range, is it due to a faulty embouchure, or one which is underdeveloped? If the sound and range are pretty good for an intermediate student, is their physical approach correct, or are they using an inefficient embouchure which will cause them to plateau as the demands on their playing increase with time? How are these determinations made? How are inefficiencies remedied?
Our perspectives are a result of the sum-totals of our own experiences. Both what does/did and doesn't/didn't work for us. I can only speak for myself, but I believe most teachers teach this way.
I find it very interesting that when teaching the physical aspects of the horn, trumpeters become very passionate concerning their own beliefs. Why is this? Perhaps because playing the instrument is such a personal and uplifting experience. Think about it - we cradle the instrument in our hands and blow life into it to create a lyrical and triumphant sound! Much more personal than hitting a drum or striking a keyboard. Maybe another contributing factor to this passion is a loyal devotion to a teacher who has put them on the path to success. Maybe trumpet-player ego?
As I lurk about on the Herald, I find it interesting (and sometimes painful) to read some of the negative posts which contain personal attacks. While I particularly enjoy heated discussions in defense of different methodologies, it all seems to crumble when a poster resorts to inflammatory remarks instead of defending their assertions. I really don't care to read that. I am here to listen to questions from aspiring players and to consider answers from players/teachers with experience, or anyone else who has had a similar problem. Often the two parties in disagreement are closer on a point than they may think, but improper or careless use of semantics gets in the way.
The point of this rambling is that I believe the majority of us are here at the Herald to use this great resource to see what is "out there" both in the form of products and knowledge. Some threads begin with a great question and end up as a personal confrontation when someone cannot back up their own premise. When I see (and now skip over) these posts, I can't help but think how much I would hate to be this person's student - no matter how well they play. What works for one may not work for another. Back up what you have to say and have an open mind instead of a defensive attitude.
I am now preparing myself mentally for the barbs before I hit the submit button.
Steve |
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pfrank Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2002 Posts: 3523 Location: Boston MA
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Well stated!
To add to your statement on the nature of trumpet, Trumpet is the only instrument, other voice, where one's Own Flesh is producing the vibration! |
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Emb_Enh Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well done!
You won't get any disagreement from me on this one!
Roddy o-iii<O _________________ Regards, Roddy o-iii
RoddyTpt@aol.com
"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD
[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method] |
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jkramb19 Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2002 Posts: 365
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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right on _________________ Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.
"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender." Vince Lombardi |
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_PhilPicc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2002 Posts: 2286 Location: Clarkston, Mi. USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Great Post - Great Message!
Thanks,
Phil _________________ Philip Satterthwaite
We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal |
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Quadruple C Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2001 Posts: 1448
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-24 13:51 ] |
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vivace Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2001 Posts: 3203 Location: BYU! Provo, UT
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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what about any brass instrument? they use flesh _________________ "All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing no song." - Louis Armstrong |
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pair of kings Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002 Posts: 1013 Location: York, PA
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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THANK YOU, Steve. |
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wayben Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 60 Location: usa
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well said, Steve. |
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mark936 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2002 Posts: 1254 Location: Bakersfield California
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:52 am Post subject: |
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OMG=(Oh my God) what happened? Did you see an opinionated trumpet player? Where is he?
It is sad to see people type stuff that they would never say if they were standing in the same room with the other person. That's the yardstick I use.
I've always looked at the www discussion groups as a crowded cyber-hangar with many conversations taking place at the same time.
This site is kindergarten compared to some of the usenet discussions. Personal attacks,slander, ethnic, sexual and physical threats are posted by the minute.
I find it comforting to be in this forum with like minded people--so far.
And I assume if a post is way out of line a Moderator would delete it.
mm
"God made the '65 Selmer K-modified lightweight--man made all the others..." |
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pfrank Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2002 Posts: 3523 Location: Boston MA
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
On 2002-04-17 19:54, vivace wrote:
what about any brass instrument? they use flesh
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Well, yeah. Oops. |
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Warbird Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2002 Posts: 431 Location: Concord, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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I am now preparing myself mentally for the barbs before I hit the submit button.
Steve
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Well, Steve, I guess all I can say is this..., in the words of someone else's post I previously saw, are you prepared to back up your opinions?
In Christ,
Joseph N. Pack _________________ Holton MF ST307 -Marc Bobby Shew 1E10.3
Bach Strad. Mo 43 - Bach 1X
1929 Conn. - Bach 1X
1935 H. N. White Co. Cornet - Denis Wick 4B |
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Strawdoggy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 1219 Location: Carlisle, PA
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Warbird,
Yes. And what's more, I will acknowledge if I believe I am wrong!
I miss the NC weather, although it is warming up here in PA. Used to live in Fayettenam. : )
Steve |
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edtaylor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 1199 Location: Brevard, NC
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2002 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Strawdoggy, May be too logical to be acceptable, but I thoroughly agree with your commentary. _________________ Ed Taylor . . . a Messianic gentile |
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jgadvert Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2002 Posts: 1105 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Well put post.
For me, success is the best defense. As long as I achieve my goals as a musician and businessman(as it relates to trumpet playing)
I ultimately dont give a horses patoot regarding negative comments.
95% of the time it comes from someone who isnt doing better than me(what a joke!)
However, folks should be able to say what they want(negative or otherwise). Thats why I suggested a "hardball" forum. So if you must, it's there for you. If it's not your thing, tune out and go look at the post on "spit valves". People like to read bashing(vicious or non vicious). Like it or not. Forums that contain bashing have amongst the most views.
I've got a dozen friendly beefs I'd like to air but I dont think its right tying up an educational discussion with it. |
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Warbird Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2002 Posts: 431 Location: Concord, North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
For me, success is the best defense. As long as I achieve my goals as a musician and businessman(as it relates to trumpet playing)
I ultimately dont give a horses patoot regarding negative comments.
95% of the time it comes from someone who isnt doing better than me(what a joke!)
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AMEN!!! This goes back to what some of my other topics say. If you got the better sound and are technically better...then everyone else can just go and "Foxtrot Oscar" (those military guys know what I mean...)
Oh, and regarding the Fayettnam comment by our topic leader here...that is hularious, I have never heard it called that:). I hope you know I was just joking when I made my post. I looked at it just now and though 'crap, I hope that didn't sound bad' Nice to see that there are some "trumpet champions" from NC that I can learn from. this has been the best tool for me. I am glad my trumpet teacher showed me this!!!
In Christ,
Joseph N. Pack _________________ Holton MF ST307 -Marc Bobby Shew 1E10.3
Bach Strad. Mo 43 - Bach 1X
1929 Conn. - Bach 1X
1935 H. N. White Co. Cornet - Denis Wick 4B |
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Strawdoggy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 1219 Location: Carlisle, PA
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Warbird,
No offense taken. : )
I hope people reading my original post understand that I am not hyper-sensitive or anything close to it. I was a paratrooper with the 82nd Airborne in an earlier life. Believe me, nothing that is said here on the internet is going to shock me. My point is that players on this forum who want to argue a pedagogical point should use experience, laws of physics, research to defend their point, as opposed to running out of ideas and insulting someone who may have disproven their theory.
That's all.
Steve |
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Quadruple C Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2001 Posts: 1448
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-24 13:52 ] |
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Quadruple C Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2001 Posts: 1448
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2002-04-29 18:29 ] |
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edtaylor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 1199 Location: Brevard, NC
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Steve, Some of this talk brings back memories. Long ago my address for a time was Med Co, 504 AIR, 82d Abn Div. _________________ Ed Taylor . . . a Messianic gentile |
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