Kanstul Valves

GMacDaddyTPO · Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:29 am Post subject:

I have heard a few times, that some people do not recommend Kanstul to "beginners" because of the tight valves, and the proper care needed to break them in. As a "beginner" (6 years), What is the proper way to break in these valves? I have been considering a Kanstul for some time and I was wondering what kind of care is needed.

JOEG · Regular Member Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 96

In my experience, Kanstul valves are among the fastest and most consistent in the market.

As far as breaking in the valves, any new horn will take a small amount of time for the valves to adjust to the casing, as well as the * player adjust to the valves. *

With any new horn, it is best to remove the valves and wipe them clean with a cloth before re-oiling. This can be done for the first few weeks and will aid in any break in time necessary.

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Joe Gaspar
http://www.dillonmusic.com
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[ This Message was edited by: JOEG on 2004-06-29 09:58 ]

camelbrass · Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:57 am Post subject:

Joe's right.

Kanstul valves are great. I've owned 3 Kanstuls from new and all were great after being properly worked in. My flugel took quite a lot of cleaning, oiling and working in (much more than either the Chicago or FB) but once it's done they work really well.

It's not rocket science.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Trevor

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

I've owned a (nearly new) Kanstul, a new Schilke and now a new Eclipse. Each of the last two have valves which are reputed to be if not THE best, then certainly vying for top spot on the quality and tightness "in the business" (the other valve maker with rave reviews is Getzen... and I've got one of their 30 year old cornets...still with fantastic valves). Never had any problems with ANY of them once they were broken in.

Echoing previous posters... wipe clean, swab casings and reoil daily for the first week or so. RINSE OUT THE ENTIRE HORN every two days during that first week (more often is better than less often...amazing what little bits of microscopic "stuff" gets left behind sometimes... a new horn is NOT "surgically clean" when it comes out the factory door). After a week or two reduce cleaning frequency to "whenever appropriate". At the one year mark I was cleaning/reoiling valves on the Schilke once per week and giving the whole horn a bath once every three months; not because it needed it but simply because I believe strongly in "preventive maintenance" (and it's a good time to clean/regrease the slides too). As a result I've NEVER had a valve stick or a water key jam or break during performance. Same with the Eclipse but it was an even shorter break-in... I was performing on it 5 days after receiving it.

Caveat: If you purchase your horn through a dealer that provides a "pre-delivery" inspection/play test/cleaning you may experience a somewhat shortened break-in period. If you buy through one of those "mailorder" houses where YOU open the factory wrapping you may most likely have to put up with a longer break-in.

Don't be afraid of Kanstul valves. Those folks know what they're doing.

rafterman · Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:47 am Post subject:

Ditto on the Kanstul valves. I've three Kanstuls and had no problems. I have noticed that oils made a difference. I'm using Blue Juice now and things are fine. I won't comment on other oil brands, because I've not been very systematic about my "test" methods.

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:32 am Post subject:

GMacDaddyTPO · Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject:

Hey thanks guys. I will probably get it right from the manufacturer's box (If I get it). See I will be making the five hour trip up to WWBW and I want to test everything I can get my hands on. I will probably be purchasing then too, and they will hand me a brand new trumpet, right from the manufacturer's box. I am not sure I am gettin a kanstul, but I wanted to make sure that if I did, that I wouldn't have any problems that I couldn't deal with.

Getzen · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1948

This is an issue that always makes me chuckle and mad at the same time. It amazes me how many players have taken the "break in" period theory to heart. There is no need for a break in period with a new trumpet. The valves should be perfect when it comes from the factory. As many of you know, it is something we take very seriously and we are not alone in this. The problem comes when companies attempt to speed up the manufacturing process by using coarse grit lapping compounds and spending less time lapping the pistons into the casings. Another trick is that many companies use a fine grit on the top line instruments, but use a coarser grit on entry level horns. This way they save labor time on horns that already have razor thin profit margins. We don't do that at all. We use the exact same compound and process on all of our pistoned instruments to ensure that the pistons are the best they can be before the player ever sees the horn. And the back that up we cover all pistons with a lifetime warranty against manufacture defect.

Basically, what I am saying, is that you as players need to demand and expect more out of your new instruments. Don't let the manufacturers talk you into doing their job for them.

Brett Getzen

bgwbold · Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:25 pm Post subject:

If you are planning on keeping a horn, valves like Kanstul's are worth the very minor break in period. Just keep them clean and lubed and you will be fine.

As good as Getzen valves are, I would not be knocking Kanstul since both brands are good. Neither really get the recognition that they deserve. They have a lot in common, when you think of it.

Mike

Getzen · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1948

The big difference though is that we use nickel plated, nickel silver pistons and not monel. I don't think I have to go into our position on this issue. Just ask any repair tech which they would prefer. 9 out of 10 will tell you that the best thing you can do to a monel piston is nickel plate it.

Brett Getzen

Hornie · Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:55 am Post subject:

Does anyone find that Kanstul vavles are noisy? Or is that part of the break-in thing?
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Tom LeCompte · Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:27 am Post subject:

Hornie, Kanstul valves use metal valvue guides. They do get quieter as they work in (a drop of oil on the valve guide and another on the slot can also quiet them) but they will probably never be as quiet as the delrin guides some manufacturers use.

Cheers,

Tom

Hornie · Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:29 am Post subject:

Thanks, Tom. I was just wondering. I'll get used to them. They're quick, though, and very easy and smooth.

I'm happy with my new horn.
_________________
"Discipline is remembering what you want."

NELATrpt · Regular Member Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 85

Hornie, when I got my 1600, the only thing about the valves I didn't care for was the little bit of noise the valves made. PC King from PiCK Music sent me the nylon guides along with the horn because she knew that my 75 LA Benge
had them. Replaced the metal guides with the nylon and the noise disappeared.

Oh, and as far as break in...if my valves get any better than they are right now, I'll be extremely happy.

gus · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 452

I remember what my Strad manual said when I bought it.

First is to put oil through the leadpipes and clean de pistons with water and then oil it.
Leave the trumpet until next day. Clean it again. Oil. Rest. Clean it again. Rest. This process is until no metal dirt comes from the valves.

After that I think you will have no problems..

Hornie · Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:08 am Post subject:

Kanstul has a great reputation for their horns, and their valves, but why do their valves need a break when others seem to not? Just curious.
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NELATrpt · Regular Member Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 85

My 1600 WB didn't need any break in period. PC King from PiCK Music put mine through the paces before shipping to me and said the horn was perfect. She was right!

Like I said previously, I can't imagine the valves getting any better, but if they do, I'll be real happy!

PS. I do clean and oil the valves religiously. The Zaja Blue Ms. King sent with the horn has worked extremely well. I had never tried it before, but have become a believer.

Hornie · Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject:

I'm convinced that they don't need "breaking in," just tender loving care, and lots of playing!

_________________
"Discipline is remembering what you want."