Couesnon Triebert Moderne & Vintage Getzen Flugel Questions

Dr. Stu · Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:37 pm Post subject:

I have the opportunity to buy either (or both) of these Flugels, but I know little about either.

Where in the Couesnon line does the Triebert Moderne fit exactly? (I believe it is a Couesnon) Is it considered a Pro level horn or a student horn (looks like it has a lyre clamp)? Does anyone out the play it ? and how does it sound/perform? This one says ...
TRIEBERT
MODERNE
41XXX
MADE IN FRANCE

on the bell (looks like a two-piece bell) and is stamped with an "N" on the second valve casing, and by the pix, is in VG condition.

The Getzen Flugel is silver plated and is a Donald E. Getzen SIGNATURE Model. I don't have a clear picture of the bell, but it looks like a two-piece bell and looks like it says...
DONALD E GETZEN
SIGNATURE
<something>
Lake Geneva, Wis. USA

On the second valve casing,...
"Willson Swiss Made"
SN 67XX

I presume, though it is vintage, that it is a large bore, like the new ones, but I'm not sure. Anyone know the size of the mouthpiece receiver?

I will have an opportunity to see and play both horns first, but will also like to know how much I should expect to part with (ballpark) if I like them.

TIA. Have been a comeback lurker for a while and you guys are incredibie!

-Stu

tptptp · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:45 am Post subject:

Triebert Moderne was one of the models Couesnon produced for certain markets, I think. I have one which I bought from The Horntrader several years ago, because the Getzen 4 valve flugel I was using was too heavy and I felt my tone was too bright. My Triebert is silver, and not of the highest quality fit-and-finish. But! The sound is absolutely dreamy. It can make women blush and babies hush; heads turn and sinners repent; butter melt and cats purr. I think the Triebert was a high-end Couesnon product, but I'm not sure. It sounds so good, I no longer care. I do have two other Couesnon flugels I have since bought, and neither sounds as good (babies still whimper) as the Triebert Moderne. Good luck.
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Craig Mitchell

tptptp · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:45 am Post subject:

Triebert Moderne was one of the models Couesnon produced for certain markets, I think. I have one which I bought from The Horntrader several years ago, because the Getzen 4 valve flugel I was using was too heavy and I felt my tone was too bright. My Triebert is silver, and not of the highest quality fit-and-finish. But! The sound is absolutely dreamy. It can make women blush and babies hush; heads turn and sinners repent; butter melt and cats purr. I think the Triebert was a high-end Couesnon product, but I'm not sure. It sounds so good, I no longer care. I do have two other Couesnon flugels I have since bought, and neither sounds as good (babies still whimper) as the Triebert Moderne. Good luck.
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Craig Mitchell

Getzen · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1948

Well, the only thing I can really comment on this thread is that the one flugel is not a Getzen. It was made for DEG Music of Lake Genenva, WI. DEG was founded by my Uncle Don shortly after he left the Getzen Company. DEG didn't manufacture any of their own instruments and instead contracted with other companies (including Allied Music which we owned at the time) to manufacture their instruments.

Anyway, as you can guess, Don is a Getzen but the two companies were and are very different and very seperate.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Brett Getzen

Dr. Stu · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject:

Craig, Any idea what you paid for the horn? It sounds like you kind-of-maybe like the sound of it a little, so now you've got me more interested. I'm going to try it on Friday, and I'll post my thoughts.

Brett, Thanks for the info. I was able to find out a little about the horn once I searched for D.E.G.. I'm REALLY sorry it's not a real vintage Getzen horn. Looks like it was probably made in Switzerland (A "Swetzen?").

BTW, I'll still take any more info anyone has on these two flugels.

Thanks,

-Stu

nieuwguyski · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:

Here's the current Willson/DEG flugelhorn:

http://www.willsonbrass.com/willson.php?VAR_SearchType=Flugelhorn
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

tptptp · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:32 pm Post subject:

Stu, I think I paid $900 or $1000 3 or 4 years ago; A trifle for such beauty. The Triebert Moderne I have is a middle-aged flugel, probable from the '60s?? Nobody seems to know the serial number sequence of these older Couesnons, although the really old ones have the date stamped inside a little pineapple on the bell. I have one somewhere around here stamped 32 or something. Couesnon wasn't known for fit-finish, but they sure got the sound right with flugels. As you probably know, Couesnon is pronounced "kweenoh". The flugels are affectionately called "Queenies" and they were loved by many, many players and ears over the years. I think Tom Turner is a believer also. Are you there, Tom?
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Craig Mitchell

camel lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 687

DEG flugels are trash.I would not use one as a plunger.

My first Flugel was a DEG.I still have it and let my son use it but it is a real peice of crap.

I see them selling for $150-$400 on ebay depending on the time of the year.

sounds7 · Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:40 am Post subject:

Dr Stu

I am in the market for a Vintage Couesnon as well. If you decide not to purchase i would be interested in this horn,
_________________
47 Martin Committee #3
Buescher lightweight 400 228
Buescher lightweight 400 217
Taylor/Harrelson/MAW
Warburton model 235
Stomvi Mambo #5
Conn constellation 38a cor.
Courtois 301 Orchestra C
Yamaha Custom 9830 pic
Yamaha 731 /Harrelson mod

Mikeytrpt · Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:05 am Post subject:

Stu and everybody:

If you are looking for a new flugelhorn, I would suggest waiting for the new Getzen that will be coming out. I have talked with the person that designed this horn, and from what he said, it would be pretty good. .413-.415 bore, great intonation, with the wonderful Getzen valve section. I just sold my Yamaha 631G in anticipation of getting the new Getzen.

Mike

Dr. Stu · Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject:

Everyone, thanks for the info.

Craig, which mouthpiece are you using with your Triebert? The one I’ll be looking at is lacquered brass (at least for now), not silver-plated like yours, so might even be naturally darker than yours. But, for you, which piece do you think matches well?

Sounds 7, will definitely give you a shout if I decide not to buy.

Mike, I don’t know… I’ve been fighting the itch so long now that I’m not sure I can hold out much longer, especially If I can get a nice price on a nice vintage Queenie.

-Stu

tptptp · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:06 am Post subject:

Stu,
Unlike my quest (read psychosis) for a good trumpet mouthpiece, which has taken my through about 10,000 candidates, I have two flugel pieces. My first flugel, a Getzen, came with a Getzen 3C. Then I got my Couesnon Triebert Moderne and inserted the Getzen mouthpiece. When the spring birds stopped singing and gathered around wing-and-wing, and with gaping beaks and glazed eyes swayed to and fro, I naturally decided there must be an even better mouthpiece out there. I bought a bach 3C. Three Robins and a Cardinal mustered all their strength and brought me the Getzen. I haven't tried anything else. There is an issue of receiver taper when picking a proper piece, the Couesnon requiring a French taper. (I do not even know what taper the Getzen piece is--Should I care given the joy of the birds?) Like the rest of my endeavors, where I quickly stray from God's will, I am open to other flugel mouthpiece possibilities. Anyway a Getzen 3C, and I can't recall anyone else anywhere claiming to use a Getzen. The secret is out??
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Craig Mitchell

Getzen · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1948

First off, the previous post is great. I'm tempted to print it out and put it on the wall of my office.

Second, the new fluegel is in production right now. In fact, I think the first batch are finished. It is a 3895 Custom Series flugelhorn. The valve set is a .420" bore made to the same strict standards that every Getzen valve set is. As I mentioned before, from what I have been told the most important part of the new design is the first branch. Now called the Tone Branch, it has made such a huge advancement in the play of the new 3895 that we are putting it on all of our other flugels with great success.

I'd say that if you are wanting one of the new flugelhorns you should contact your dealer about them. Like I said, the first batch is close, if not already, finished.

Brett Getzen

Mikeytrpt · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:31 am Post subject:

Great to hear that Brett. Congratulations, and I will be calling Dillon soon.

Mike

(Will the trigger be standard or an option?)

Getzen · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1948

As far as everything I have been told about it, the trigger is going to be standard. As it was explained to me, the intonation on the flugel is good enough to not require a fourth valve at all, but the trigger would still be helpful. And for those that don't like it, you can order the flugel without a trigger.

Brett Getzen

Dr. Stu · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:11 am Post subject:

O.K. Back from vacation and looked at a few horns.

1. The D.E.G. Flugelhorn (silver plated) is in what I would call mint condition. No dents. No dings. Silver plating I would say 100% in-tact. Has been sealed in the case something like 20+ years. Valves, slightly sluggish (alas not Getzen valves). I did not like the sound- I thought kind of "trumpety". I like a darker flugel sound, (and faster valves) so I passed. If you are looking for this horn, I think it's pretty unlikely you will find another one in this condition. Also, the case is in excellent condition. Seller has now posted it on e-bay. Here is the link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64374&item=3747154124&rd=1

2. The Couesnon Triebert Moderne Flugel is in what I would call very good condition, with no dents, maybe a couple of tiny dings, and some normal lacquer scratches typical of a horn of this age. As I recall, nothing that would have put me off buying the horn. EXCEPT... Three 1/4 to 1/2+ inch sized spots of red-rot at the base of the main bell curviture. The horn did have a nice mellow sound and the valves oiled-up to "smooth". I passed on the horn because I didn't want to (or know how to) deal with the red-rot issue. (I also thought there was a greenish-blue hue in some areas of the spots too, so maybe some sorty of fungus too?). The seller said this one will probably go up on e-bay within the next week or two.

3. I didn't get to see the Olds Flugelhorn that the seller had- she got it the day after I was there and I couldn't get back. According to Happy Canuck, it's probably an L-12. See this thread... http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24054&highlight=flugel+vintage If you might be interested in this horn, I'd watch e-bay for the next few weeks. The seller is very nice, posts good pix on e-bay, but doesn't know much about the instruments.

Happy hunting.

-Stu

nieuwguyski · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:06 pm Post subject:

If the red patches were a quarter to a half inch in size, I don't think you were looking at red rot. Red rot normally appears in very small blemishes less than an eighth inch in diameter. Based on size alone, those patches sound like surface corrosion.
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

tptptp · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject:

Stu, I suspect the corrosion kept the birds away. They don't like corrosion much. Babies don't either. A Getzen mouthpiece might counteract any negative vibes caused by corrosion... No, I'm not nuts. I just wish ANY of my 30+ trumpets and 1,000,000 or so trumpet mouthpieces felt anywhere nearly as great as my Couesnon-Getzen marriage.
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Craig Mitchell

Dr. Stu · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject:

Well Craig, I haven't given up on a Couesnon Flugel yet, just that flugel. Though I must admit, I played a Kanstul Signature 1525 flugel last week and it sounded SWEET!

- btw, that Olds flugel is now up on e-bay. Here's the link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64374&item=3748254806&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

-Stu

starving artist · Regular Member Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 14

I must say this has been an interesting thread to read. I've had a Triebert Moderne flugel since the late 80's and I've never really known anything about them until I read this thread and this page. The sound is everything tptptp describes here, and anything that sounds good while in my hands gets high marks anyway. I never really thought it was worth very much because the engraving on the bell is so boring and I picked it up for a steal at $200 (and he threw in his double case to seal the deal). Is there any way to find out what it's really worth? I don't even know how old it is.

I got the horn with a Benge 5C mouthpiece, and I've never really liked it a whole lot, so I'll definitely try the Getzen 3C.