Olds Mendez Model

HoltonMFhorn · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:01 pm Post subject: Olds Mendez Model

I was wondering what you all think of this horn http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=620&item=3749057114&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
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Monette B6

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bgwbold · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:38 am Post subject:

Plus side: original lacquer, good shape, deluxe case. It is hard to find all of that in one horn.

Minus side: more desireable ones are considered to be the older ones. This is true for all Olds, but would not matter to me. I would rather have a nice horn from 60s rather than an older horn that is not in as good a shape. I think they were sold from the early 50s until the company went out of business in the 70s.

The Mendez will fit in like a current model horn. The ones I have played all had great valves and were well made.

djm6701 · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:55 am Post subject:

With regard to the age of the horn, you don't really need to worry about horns from the 60's - the quality control problems didn't really start until the economic problems did in the early 70's.
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Dave M.
Richmond Hill (Toronto) Ontario
Kanstul WB1600, 1952 L.A. Olds Recording, 1975 L.A. Benge 3x, 1960's Olds Flugel, Yamaha 631 Flugel

GR 65.6 Mouthpieces
a jazz.fm member

tom turner · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:00 am Post subject:

Hi,

I think the Mendez model was, and is, highly overrated. It was priced at just a few dollars below their top trumpet, the Recording, yet really offered no breakthrough in design or quality.

Olds had gotten Mendez away from his prized F. Besson that he'd always played with a promise to copy the horn internally. When the prototypes didn't play correctly for Mendez at first the Olds designers scratched their heads . . . for they KNEW they copied the F. Besson correctly.

Upon carfully examining Mendez's old Besson, they discovered the valves on his beloved horn leaked like the Titanic as it was going down. The engineers quicked honed out the valve cylinders on a prototype Olds Mendez until it also leaked like crazy, then handed it to Mendez to play. THAT'S when Mendez finally LIKED IT!

Olds jacked up the price to near the Recording's amount so Mr. Mendez could get a cut and tOlds could still make a ton of money on the Mendez model. Lots of Mendez horns were made and sold because everyone in the '50s wanted to play like Mendez . . . (.and luckily they all had tight new valves of course).

THE SECRET . . .

To save money, Olds simply used the tooling of another horn they'd come out with later on . . . a horn that was already a copy internally of the F. Besson. The model? The AMBASSADOR!

EXCEPT FOR THE LIGHTWEIGHT PRO BELL, and trim pieces, the Mendez IS an Ambassador in disguise. This is great news for someone needing parts for a Mendez today . . . just remove the Ambassador trim and use the tubes on a Mendez.

THE HYPE CONTINUES . . .

Strange. Today the mystique of the Mendez model, as well as the entire, nostalgic Olds craze continues . . . with e-bayers bidding crazy amounts for anything with the Olds name on it.

This particular Olds was made near the end of the road for the Olds company. Bidding is already crazy on this one. I've seen nicer Mendez specimens, and from the "good" years, sell for less.

Lots of folks are collecting vintage horns today due to the popularity of this site and others like it where people can read about the great horns of the past . . . and prices have jumped out of control. Then again . . . the TRUE value of anything . . . is what someone is WILLING to pay for it, so I guess whatever it brings is what it is "worth."

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

PS: What do the serious player/Olds collectors Olds play who've had all the various models? 'Tain't the Mendez usually!

djm6701 · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:31 am Post subject:

Trptbenge · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:54 am Post subject:

I agree with Tom and Dave about the Mendez. While many of the Olds models were unique and interesting to play I find the Mendez kind of blase'. The Super Recording, Recording and Super Models were better playing horns with more character. I love the third valve trigger but have never liked the first valve trigger. I guess it worked for Mendez but he probably could have played anything and made it sound great.

Mike

tom turner · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:42 am Post subject:

Bingo!

Tom

fcirkse · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:37 am Post subject:

Hi - I bid on this horn until it got to $700. I just got a Mendez M-10, 1967 vintage from Rich Ita, and it is really nice. But, I see people compare it to the Recording, etc. and I tried playing it this morning next to Olds Recording vintage 1963-4, and the Recording takes it hands down.

The Mendez seems softer, lighter - almost afraid to speak whereas the Recording fires up and says, "Howdy!" without question. I can push the Mendez into action but the Recording sits there idling most of the time.

Might be my limited playing ability or choice of mouthpiece but I like the sound from the rose brass bell much better.

Thanks...Fred.

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:12 am Post subject:

I have had a Mendez, two or three Studios, a Recording, a Super Recording (available here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3747755380 ), several Ambassadors, a French Model "The Olds," and an Opera, but I'm staying with my 1940 satin-silver Olds Super.

The only gnawing regret I have is that I sold my Olds Clark Terry trumpet a few years back, and I'll never understand exactly why I did that. That was a great horn, but I was still under the influence of the Bach brainwash job. Silly me!

Anyway, I really liked my Mendez, but could NOTget used to the triggers. After so many years of pulling out to pull out, it was messing with me to try to do just the opposite.

Rich

Liberty Lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 986

Hi Tom,

I asked you in a previous post to qualify your dislike of the Méndez trumpet, but you didn't reply. I hope you reply to this one. Here's the url of that thread:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23633&highlight=

If I may respectfully disagree, I find my 1954 Méndez far more nuanced and textured than either my 1972 Super or my 1947 Super Recording. Maybe I just have a crappy Super Recording, but there is a lot of repertoire that I think the Méndez is much more suitable for than the other horns are. I'm still baffled why you dislike the Méndez so much, yet you are a fan of the Benges, which are very similar in my opinion.

Forte · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:23 pm Post subject:

lamac · Regular Member Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 12

I agree with Liberty Lips,i have a mendez 280xxx and it is a really great horn that it is capable of more nuances and textures than my other horns which are ,olds super [great one }and studio, 60's ambassador,Renolds LBore,bach 43 ,37.
It seems like the most refined horn that i have played,the tuning and slotting is outstanding and it aint nothing like no ambassador,it wouldn,t matter what you did to customise an abassador you would not get the same thing,i tried to make the comparison when i heard that they where the same before except the lighter bell and when i checked nothing is the same at all and nothing fits.
I have honed some valves down before and it will make a difference on any horn if you do that and you might like it but i wouldn't touch my mendez ,it dont need anything.
I dont think it was all hype or marketing ,Olds truly made an effort to make a great horn,as said before it is a copy of the french Besson and many people played one including the great Fats Navaro and i am sure they were not all leaking at the valves or had there valves honed down.

My Mendez would be the most likely candidate to play flight of the bumble bee on and fast bebop because of the extra fast responce and there is something in the sound which is dark and clear,if i wanted to play something funky i would use the 43.The mendez mpc which came with the horn makes the horn come alive ,putting on a plain ol 7c does not work the same but great for my bach 43.

lamac · Regular Member Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 12

have a read of this http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/mendez/meeting/Mendez_Olson.html

he used his frends olds mendez and also gave him his Besson,

it makes it hard to believe Ralf mendez's horn was customised if he wanted to use his freinds,?who knows he could do his thing on what ever anyway

lamac · Regular Member Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 12

sorry he lent him him custom trumpet not his Mendez,but giving him his besson? just thought i would mention it no biggy.

tom turner · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:10 pm Post subject:

Liberty Lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 986

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reply, your opinion is in much better perspective now. I'm wondering where you got the information that the Méndez was based on the Ambassador's tooling, and how the Ambassador's (and Méndez) valve section differs from the Recording's valve section? Thanks.

bgwbold · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:07 pm Post subject:

I have never heard that a Mendez is just a tricked out Ambassador either. My feeling is that all the Olds are pretty good horns, even the Ambassador, because Olds' quality control was so good.

Mike

BeboppinFool · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:02 am Post subject:

bulos · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:56 am Post subject:

[quote="tom turner"]Hi,

I think the Mendez model was, and is, highly overrated. It was priced at just a few dollars below their top trumpet, the Recording

To save money, Olds simply used the tooling of another horn they'd come out with later on . . . a horn that was already a copy internally of the F. Besson. The model? The AMBASSADOR!

Tom,
The Mendez sold for more then not less then the Recording. If you look at the valve section of the Mendez you will see that is is different then all of the other Olds models. As f or it's sharing tooling with the Ambassador I don't know what that means.....same mandrels? My personal favorite Olds trumpets and I have a mess of them on my site that I stil keep as colletibles are the Super recording and the "Olds" LLM bore from 1929. No matter how you dice it Olds was a top og the line manufacturer of super high quality horns, none better. The old French Bessons had a great blow but they didn't stack up quality wise to the Olds trumpets.........The ones I come across are usually worn in ways I never see on old Olds stuff.
Paul
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bgwbold · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:58 am Post subject:

Comparing a Mendez and an Ambassador:

Lining a Mendez and an Ambassador up side by side, I do not see much similarity between the two. The bell bracing is very different between the two with the Mendez having long diagonal bracing compared to the Ambassador's closer bracing with a shorter offset. The guage of the tubing is noticably thinner on the Mendez making the Mendez fairly lightweight in effect. Though the bore may be the same, none of the slides are interchangeable. The wrap of the bell is different between the two making the overall length of the horns different. I believe most Olds shared the same valve cluster, but that is about all that I can tell. The finish of the horns were pretty different, too.

Mike