Which flugelhorn to buy?

ehobbs22000 · New Member Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 2

I'm looking into buying a flugelhorn. I've saved enough money to buy a really good-quality horn, so I'm prepared to spend enough to buy the best. The question is: which one, and how much money is too much?

I've tried out the Bobby Shew, Kanstul, Stomvi, and another Yamaha (I can't remember the specific model). So far, I've been partial to Stomvi or Kanstul, but some of my peers tell me that the Yamahas work well if I just find the right mouthpiece. However, I don't want to keep searching through mouthpieces to find "the one." The Yamahas just didn't feel as smooth as a Stomvi or Kanstul, especially in the upper register.

I play on a 1-1/2c Bach flugel mouthpiece, and I also use a 1-1/2c on my B-flat and C horns. I'm partial to "bigger horns". I've also heard that Bachs are pretty nice.

Suggestions?

Erin Hobbs

bandman322 · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:58 am Post subject:

I have switched to a Bach FH and love it. The problem is that I had to play on many Bach horns before I found this one. You need to play on as many horns as possible, and when you get that horn, no matter the brand, that plays super well for you, don't let it out of your hands.

Remember -- every company will make some good horns, some great horns, and some bad horns. You need to play them before you can decide. DON'T LET ANYONE TALK YOU INTO ORDERING A HORN IF YOU CAN'T RETURN IT IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
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Bb - Bach Strad 180ML-37

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crzytptman · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:05 am Post subject:

I really like my Getzen. It is a big bore: .460. The other horns you mention, like most, are in the .415-.445 range. Depending on the bell size, this may or may not be an issue. Especially if you use a large throated mpc.

The other popular horns I've played seem to have a small sound, although smooth and well in tune. My Getzen has a big open, lush, warm sound that can easily fill a room. But there are some intonation issues. When I talk about these my sax player friends almost pee their pants laughing! They say just play it play it play it and make the compensation come natural. So far, for me this makes sense. The only other horns I really liked were the Callet (also .460) and the Taylor ($3000 I think). I know that Lawler uses Getzen valves, and I bet he makes a nice instrument.

Hope this helps . . . by the way I use a Warburton 3FL, although may be moving to a 3FLX or maybe a CG Personal.
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gregc · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:27 am Post subject:

I was gonna recommend a Yammie 631G, but the real answer is 'the one you like'. If you have the extra $, have Roy Lawler build you a hand-crafted gem.
gregc

mototrmpt · Veteran Member Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 186

I have both a Yamaha 631 and a Kanstul 1525 and I'm in the process of selling the Yamaha. They both play well and I do like the smoothness of the Kanstul valves better. Also the Kanstul seems to have better intonation than the Yamaha. But the feel of the valves and intonation are not different enough to justify the difference in cost. The real difference is the sound you want or expect from the flugelhorn. I personnally like the sound of the Kanstul more than the Yamaha. This is just my personal preference. You need to play a bunch of horns and decide what sound you like better.

-Lance

wardsd · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Mar 2003 Posts: 504

You should at least try a Conn Vintage one Flugel before finally purchasing one. I LOVE mine, it gives me a very warm mellow sound with my Curry mouthpiece (this mouthpiece is DEEP!). Excellent intonation as well.

You will need a different mouthpiece if you buy a Conn V1, because it takes a standard shank.

Steve

bspickler · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:20 pm Post subject: Flugel choice

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the LeBlanc Sandoval model. It has a nice full rich sound and a lot of flexibility in intonation. My range is limited on it but that's a function of the mouthpiece. I almost would like to use my trumpet mouthpiece but that would be cheating.

Bill

Horatio Hornblower · Heavyweight Member Joined: 06 Jun 2004 Posts: 724

Well, I love my Taylor Flugel. It is an easy to play sweet sounding horn..based on Quesnon and horns of that ilk, but really velvety an smooth. Worth every penny. Built to order.

LFRoberts5 · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject:

How about the Eclipse.
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trumpetmike · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject:

Eclipse - no contest

The only flugel I have played that allowed me (a piccolo trumpet specialist) to sound like a flugel player.

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:43 pm Post subject:

I went on a flugelhorn safari a while back; you might read that old thread and see what people thought and said then.

I tend to take specifications with a grain of salt, because I play a musical instrument, not a card with a bunch of numbers in them, but flugelhorns tend to fall into one of two categories based on bore size, and most players have a pretty clear preference one way or the other. While I say "size", in a flugelhorn, unlike a trumpet, the real difference is in shape. A flugelhorn has a conical taper, so the tubing radius is growing through the horn. A large bore horn has to grow to .460" or so in the first few inches (between the mouthpiece and the 1st valve), while a small bore horn can grow more gradually - it only has to be at .415" or so by the valve cluster. I think they play quite differently, and most people have a pretty strong prefernce for one or the other, so would urge you to try both kinds out. I think the large bore horns play more like trumpets and sound more like trumpets, but of course the key phrase is "more like". Both kinds sound and play like flugelhorns.

The Yamaha 6xx and 7xx series (and copies, like the Jupiter) have a bore in between these two: .433".

Among the large-bore proponents, many folks here seem to be gravitating to the Getzen flugelhorns.

The small bore people tend to gravitate to two camps around one of two horns: the Kanstul 1525 and the Conn Vintage One. The Kanstul has a darker, more trombone-y sound, and the Conn a brighter sound, one dcstep calls "classic French" - nothing at all like a trumpet.

Bandman says he likes the Bach. I played one and hated it. To me, each different valve combination felt like a totally different horn. The lesson to take from this is that we can point you at something you maybe weren't thinking about, but you're going to have to try them yourself. What works for one person, like bandman, didn't work for another one (me).

You will probably need to get a new mouthpiece, since horns that use the "Bach" taper are relatively rare.

Cheers,

Tom

camelbrass · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject:

Tom pretty well put most of the options on the table.

I like a big bore trumpet as well but don't let that influence your choice of flugel. It plays sufficiently different for that not to be an issue.

Some guys have had great success playing the cheaper flugels (like the Jupiter) but I've always had intonation issues..particularly above the staff (I know, I know..what are you doing playing one of those up there!!

I liked the Yamaha but there is always something with them that just doesn't click with me.

A flugel is all about the sound. If the horn is competent then it's the sound that'll grab you. I liked the Kanstul Signature. However, if you can don't use a big deep vd mouthpiece (I know, I know again..."but that's what a flugel piece is supposed to be!!"). To my ear it sounds great with a more (dare I say it) trumpet like mouthpiece. The Conn V1 is also excellent and has a lighter sound more suited to the traditional set up.

I've never tried one of Roys (Lawler) but it would always be on my list if I could get hold of it. Same with the WT. Brett Getzen was saying that they are releasing a small bore flugel..again always worth the look.

The best flugel I've played was a Taylor as well.

Just my 02cents.

Regards,

Trevor

Mark Bradley · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:18 am Post subject:

I wonder how these bad boys play:

http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com/

Refering to the Hub Van Laar flugels, in case the link doesn't go straight there.

(there's always a new kid on the block to worry about...)

_Don Herman · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:26 pm Post subject:

Lots of good info! Be sure to check out the Schilke Loyalist's Gearhead site -- a nice section on flugelhorns (http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/)

I tend to like the smaller bore flugels -- the larger bores sound too "trumpety" too me. It's a personal choice. Ditto the "light" vs. "dark" sound range of flugelhorns... To me, the former is sort of like a dark cornet, while the latter a richer, deeper sound. Not neccessarily better, just different. I tried all the flavors I could a couple of years ago before settling on MYF, Mellow Yellow Flugelhorn, my WT flugel (Flip's first!) The Kanstul 1525 was the front runner before then. The Kanstul Custom was nice; ditto the Chicago though it was on the "lighter" side for me. I liked the older (631?) Yamaha but didn't really care for the Shew model. Tried one Bach, and as I've posted before, I think it had some damage along the way as it played very poorly. A Callet I tried was a "big bore" model. Intonation etc. were excellent, I just preferred the Kanstul Signature's (and WT's) sound.

More recently, he Eclipse flugel I barely blew at ITG -- I was recovering from a nasty lip injury and really wasn't playing yet -- was really sweet, and again in the "light" camp (to/for me -- just put imo in front of or behind everything and I'll save some text!) I also tried a Conn Vintage One at the conference-- again, with my chops I couldn't really say much about it. I looked at Taylor and a a couple of others, but didn't try them (my penance for coaching baseball was not getting to try all the toys at ITG).

There is such a large difference in blow and sound that you really have to try several to establish what sound and blow you want. Of course, mpc choice makes a difference, too... Flip's deep V cups and large (13!) throat make a small bore blow like a large bore. The catch is, there are three different flugelhorn receivers, so it's hard to just get one mpc to use on your trials. You have to get one with the right shank for the horn you're trying.

Flugels are fun! - Don
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

_dcstep · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:48 pm Post subject:

My next flugel will be an Eclipse in yellow brass.

Other favorites with that light, "classic" flugel tone include the Conn Vintage One and the Selmer Paris Concept TT.

For a dark (almost trombony tone) look at the Kanstuls with copper bells and the LeBlanc Sandoval.

My current Yamaha 731 is an excellent "tweener" and particularly good for doubling on rock/funk gigs, but I want to move to a more "classic" tone.

Dave
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DC · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject:

When it comes to flugelhorns, my one true flugel love is the Conn Vintage One flugel. Combine a V1 flugel with a GR FD series flugel mouthpiece, and welcome to Flugelhorn Heaven!

D.
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Conn Vintage One Flugelhorn -- GR66FD
Yamaha YCR-6335HS Cornet -- Sparx 3
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Tom LeCompte · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:20 pm Post subject:

Erin, have you noticed how the same horns keep showing up again and again in this thread?

DC · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject:

cjdjazztpt · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject:

The Calicchio Copper Flugel w/ 6 1/2" bell will compete with anything mentioned here earlier! I have played Taylor, Kanstul 1525, and Conn Vintage One. I concurrently own a Yammy 631 w/ trigger and caint wait to dump it for the Calicchio!

www.calicchio.com for more info!

_dcstep · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject:

Have any of those Calicchios flugels been made?? They were telling me that none would be ready for next week's DFW TrumpetFest. Calicchio makes great horns, so I suspect it'll be very fine flugel, but I wouldn't endorse one without even trying it. Until we play one, it's impossible to say if its superior to a V1, Eclipse or even my Yamaha.

That large bell in copper has some real danger of sounding kind of trombony. I suspect I'll prefer it in yellow brass. I hope it works. I wish nothing but the best for the boys in Tulsa.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest