Playing Loud - or Projecting?

[Wtrager]

I find that many of my high school students don't know the difference between projecting and playing loud. I have also found this to be the case with some players in non professional community bands and orchestras. I next to a gentleman in a community band. The director asks me to come in and help out the section. The problem is that this gentleman plays very loud to be heard, and invariably plays very sharp in the upper range. I, on the other hand, try to play smarter. I believe that if you focus your chops, and blow the air faster that it is possible to play with less physical energy, but actually project and cut through more effectively. I've suggested these ideas to my students, and they seem to work. I would really like to hear from others on this subject. What suggestions would you have for this gentleman. I know I've tried giving him several suggestions, but he just doesn't "get it"
Sincerely,
Wayne
http://communities.msn.com/TragerTrumpetTalk

[pedaltonekid]

There is definitely a difference between playing loud and projecting. It is my opinion that if one does not overblow the horn, the inherent characteristics of the horn will do the work for you, i.e. the bell will resonate optimally and create a sound with the full overtone series. This is a much more pleasing sound than an "in your face" how loud can you play.

If your band does not do sectional work, you could schedule a sectional for the trumpets and work on a blended sound - make the section sound good and no one person should be a hero, unless called upon to do so. I have found a good rehearsal technique to be to have each person match the person to their right and left. If each group of three is trying to blend, and this concept is employed by the entire section/band, it will have an amazing effect on the sound of the group.

If you are not recording the concerts, perhaps you could do so. Even if someone does not want to believe they are not contributing positively to the ensemble, if they hear themselves playing "out of style" with the section it should give them some solid feedback with which to make changes to their approach.

If nothing else works, have everyone re-audition for the band.

[Wtrager]

Very good suggestions pedaltone kid, but as i said, this is a community band that I sit in with on occassion. Community bands are usually open to those that want to participate, so re-auditioning bandmembers that have been involved with this band for 5+ years is not feasible. I just would like to know what others would say to this one trumpet player - (he's appr.35 yrs old). The band director relies on him because he never misses a rehearsal, has pretty decent technique, and plays out. The problem is that he plays LOUD, and doesn't project. Because he plays this way, he often plays VERY sharp when playing above the staff. His tuning slide is always out at least 2 inches, and as he ascends he still goes very sharp. I teach many students, and have tried to make suggestions to this gentleman, but for some reason (maybe a little arrogance), he doesn't head my advice. My question in this forum is: What can I tell him (if anything at all) that will hit "home", and make him understand. The director is a personal friend of his, and relies on him, so he is afraid of saying a word. It is very difficult to play alongside this gentleman. The band director calls me in to help out the section 1 week before the concerts, and I don't want to refuse him, but I would rather play a job in a polka band than to play alongside this gentleman. Any thought?
Sincerely,
Wayne
http://communities.msn.com/TragerTrumpetTalk

[airegin]

hey! easy there.....my mother was in a polka band once.

[Lex Grantham]

Wayne:

Maybe the gentleman trumpet player that you are attempting to help could be asked to check out the following:

1) Does he pinch his lips together too much as he ascends?

2) Does he play with his teeth apart...he should?

3) Maybe his tongue rises too high in his mouth as he ascends.

4) Is he conscious of using his oral cavity to make his tone more full?

5) Could it be a matter of proper equipment?

6) Could he record himself and then compare his sound to someone else who would be a good example of what you are hoping to accomplish for him?

&) Maybe he could use someone's Silent Brass System for awhile and discover that he could play just enough for a good sound and by doing that learn HOW it feels physically to do JUST enough so he will not overshadow the desired quality.

10) Get out some good duets and/or trios and have two or three of you work for balance, similar tone quality, and presence of sound...not loud...but musical. Sounds as though he needs to become more of a team member. Unison playing can also serve to help players match sounds and dynamics.

11) See if he could play someone's cornet (or fluegelhorn) for awhile...it should be more mellow than a trumpet. And then strive for more mellowness on the trumpet later on.

12) Get your hands on a Center Pitch tuning device (Woodwind and Brasswind in South Bend, Indiana). Use of this will help a wind player know when he/she is overblowing to make pitches sharp. Great training tool.

13) Listening across the band for balance and intonation can help.

14) The use of risers for the brass section may help. Have the 2nd and 3rd trumpets sit higher to allow their sound to come out over the 1st part (seated lower). At least the 1st trumpet part might be calmed down a bit this way. Just a thought.

Some of these suggestions might help, but it sounds as though what is happening may take some time to cure. Good luck to you.

Sincerely,

Lex Grantham

[ This Message was edited by: Lex Grantham on 2001-12-09 11:43 ]

[fzr Phil]

Hello wayne (and Lex,Rob)
should you not do the gig for the sake of musicality?
you have two choices!
but,
Does your friend know he is playing out of tune?
Have you tried to tune to him (with a tuner perhaps) off the stage
Could you attend more rehearsals or even join the band, so that your friend is used to playing with you on the section, not just next to you at concerts when you make 'special' appearences.
it is ultimately the band directors responsibility for the music and he really should takle the problem through the music. e.g mark down the dynamics or highlight them, insist on a balance. Have you tried to match his volume ?. Two trumpets at fff will notice more than one at fff and one at f the b.d. would be forced to mark both your parts to say mf or f and you would both end up playing a comfortable ff
Our band director uses the terminology of e.g. 'forte-plus' or 'mf-minus' which can help to keep balance and prevent overblowing.
I don't think you will succeed in offering advice on his technique, as you said - 'he can play' i reckon if you decide to play with that band again, you will have to resort to a more difficult approach. the 'direct' one otherwise
some well placed comments/ subtle hints could gradually bring him round but not quickly and definately not guaranteed.

I am sorry if the tone of response is a bit harsh, but the theme of your problem with your friend strikes a chord (raw nerve) with me and my own band circumstances that i have experienced over the years.
Best regards( and good luck)

Phil Martin
_________________
Phil Martin
Callet Sima Trumpet - GR NB63*** / dw3
Besson Sovereign tenor horn DW 3
Yamaha Maestro Cornet RW3
Yamaha pro 631 Flugel dw3fL
Yamaha YCR6610T Soprano
Elkhart pocket trumpet
www.thundersleybrassband.co.uk

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-10-01 14:41 ]

[trptsbaker]

A whole lot of trumpet players mistake a splattering, loud, spreading tone for "projection." Usually, these are the same people who play with their bell buried in the music stand, usually so that they can"hear" what they are playing, which makes it very painful for the rest of the section, and also makes it difficult to get a trumpet section to blend. In my limited experience, microphone or no, if you keep your freakin' bell out of the music and aim at the back wall, preferably the "exit" sign (my favorite), and play with a solid in-tune sound and can hear and "see" your tone physically bounce off the "exit" sign, at Mf or below, then you have "projection." It is better to hear yourself bouncing off the "back of the room", no question. That means that EVERBODY hears it. Pure tone projects more efficiently than sheer volume, it's just simple accoustical physics. Then, when you play FF or above, everybody's happy, especially the audience. It's called "playing the room." "Filling the hall." Forgive me if I have been redundant of other posts, but this has been bugging me for a REALLY long time. I hope this make sense. T.