How many of you guys actually have an F/G horn...

_Don Herman · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:27 pm Post subject:

I have a Kanstul Sig picc with the G slide/bell set. It's pretty cool -- kinda' between the C and picc (A). Big bell for the wee beastie, and pretty nice sound (that is, I sound less like a sick duck on it than say the Bb side

). The Big Book suggests G is a good horn to have, and a number of excerpts lie well on it. Heck, it's fun!

And no, you'll have to get your own...

Toodles - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

gruvertpt · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:41 pm Post subject:

I have a 1965 Bach F trumpet with the G slides. The horn plays beautifully! I wish that it could be played more!
_________________
Steve Gruver
-----------------------------
Bach 180s43--B-Flat
Bach 181s37--Cornet
Bach C180S239R--C
Yamaha 9610--D/Eb
Yamaha 9830 Custom--Piccolo
Blackburn leadpipes
Conn Wonder Cornet (c. 1902)
Conn 22B Trumpet "Symphonic" (c. 1927)

ROGERIO · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:01 pm Post subject: ***

I have one of those also.... not sure of production date but it's 30xxx serial number.

I got spoiled playing the school's schilke G so I've never really been crazy about it. Very small bore...

I'm a comeback player... what BIG BOOK are you guys refering to??

Brian Moon · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:18 pm Post subject:

Brian Moon · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject:

Sooner · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:28 pm Post subject:

dave belknap · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 677

I have one of each. They aren't for sale, sorry. It is quite a job to find examples of either instrument that are worth the price or the aggravation.

Dave Belknap
Trumpet
Local 47 AF of M
Hollywood, CA

deleted_user_56590f0 · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Hello,

For the record, I played either a Schilke or Yamaha G trumpet on every recording of baroque music that I made over the years (with only the occasional exception, usually because of key, played on the Scherzer Bb or A piccolo). Most are out of print, but many of the titles and covers can be viewed here:

http://shoko.calarts.edu/~ecarroll/director.html

Ren Schilke was my first trumpet teacher. My father worked in his shop on Wabash Ave. for many years during a period of radical experiment (bell tuning comes instantly to mind) during the 60s and 70s. I watched as a variety of piccolo trumpet designs (overly large bells, long bells, etc.) were hatched. He eventually settled on current designs (plus/minus 1969?) and his piccolo (P5-4) and G trumpet designs were absolute breakthroughs at a time when the high trumpet (Selmer, Courtois) was just entering the marketplace (thanks to Maurice Andre).

Aside from the obvious advantage of playing in the keys of F or G for most of the "real" trumpet works of Bach, Handel, and others, I always felt that the G trumpet also had a heavier, more colorful, sound than its sopranino counterparts in A, Bb, and C........personal opinion, of course.

I love crusing these rooms....

Cheers,
EC

nextbrassguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 1428

ken_fung · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject:

Honestly, it was Rolf Smedvig that aroused my interest in the F/G trumpet. He played with my orchestra in 2002, one of the instruments he played is a Schilke G with a cut down C bell! It didn't sound tiny like most piccolos and so I guess it is the main reason I purchased one eventually.
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Greetings from Hong Kong,
Ken

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ENP · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:07 am Post subject:

Mr Caroll,

I must say I have enjoyed your terrific G trumpet playing. I just visited your site with your CD covers and I wish I owned more of them!

I think the G trumpet is an ideal horn for most Baroque repertoire. The sound is more full and sweet than an A Picc, more like a natural trumpet.

The Pezel Sonatinas are the perfect excuse to buy a G trumpet. They are all in C and have a fair amount of "low" writing since I believe they were originally for cornetto. Your recording of these is breathtaking. Please record more.
_________________
dM
David Marlatt
Eighth Note Publications
www.enpmusic.com

JGulyas · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:07 am Post subject:

To redirect this a little bit...

The value (playing wise) of an F/G horn is without a doubt very high. It can be used all over the place in almost any setting.

What I need to know though, is if anyone has used one with a cut down C tpt bell. I know Rolf can do it but Rolf is also a freak. I'm wondering if anyone *mortal* has done it. I asked my teacher about his and he mentioned his came with a very large bell straight from Schilke. He also said he couldn't play it in tune.

Also, with mention of the G piccolo...would it be more beneficial to just get Zig's Bb/A/G picc instead of a regular F/G tpt? I thought about doing just that, but there are times when I'd like to use an F tpt. Especially when I'm playing a transcription of some high baroque tune written for Bb.

On a side (and completely different) note, have any of y'all noticed if you play in tune better, or just better in general in a flat or sharp key? It's totally mental but I'm still interested to know. Maybe I'll start another thread about it.
_________________
All the Best,

John

US Navy Bandsman 1996-2010 (Trumpet; Audio Engineer)
Mpc - Kanstul/Monette B6, Hammond Design custom "JG"
Bb - Yamaha 6335HGSII
C - Eastman ETR530
Picc - NoName Chinese

Brian Moon · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:36 am Post subject:

[quote=

If you score study Mahler, Strauss, Tchaikovsky, and Wagner you will find that they almost always are played on a high F trumpet (or a C trumpet transposing). Listen to some recordings if you don't believe me.[/quote]

You said originally Romantic period music was played on high F trumpets, that is not true. You need to read some trumpet history. We were not speaking of today where mostly C's and Bb's are used. Score study won't tell what horn was used.

Sooner · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject:

gus · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 452

John,

Why don`'t you ask Zig to make you a F bell and the valves and the leadpipe to be added to the standard G/A/Bb and you will only have an experiment in one key?.

Gus

Brian Moon · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:39 am Post subject:

[quote="Sooner")

I should have been more clear about what I meant by "high F trumpet". In most classical scores the trumpet in F is meant to sound down a P5th from the written pitch. In romantic music the trumpet in F is meant to sound up a P4th from the written pitch, hence the term "high F trumpet".[/quote]

No man that isn't right either. Unless it says F alta it sounds up from written pitch. When playing on the big old Romantic trumpet you had to play up an octave in the overtone series from what we do today maybe that is what is causing the confusion.

Robert Rowe · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:45 am Post subject: F / G horns

I agree with "trumpetmike" re: lower-voiced F and G horns for Mahler, etc., etc. Over the past x-decades, we've attuned (sorry!) our listening to the higher-voiced horns in performances. Sort of like pop music with all the "guys" (?) singing falsetto (Franki Valli, Michael Jackson, etc)...you get used to it, and it becomes "the norm"...("what once were vices, are now habits"....). While there is no plethora of available horns pitched in the lower F & G, there are a few. I have a silver Kanstul 3-valve "bugle" in G, that resembles a larger fluegel horn w/ 8" bell, .468" bore (I think).
I got this horn to explore the possibilities of a different "voice" in the non-classical music I prefer to play nowadays; and, I became bored and annoyed with the "pressure" expended towards me by section-mates and band directors to "conform" and "blend in". Balderdash & poppycock! (not the actual words I used). "...the blind, leading the blind"...etc., etc...). By the way, the fine and knowledgeable gentleman, Dick Akright, provided me with a special mpc for this G horn -- God bless you, Mr. Akright! Also, the notorious Getzen "Frumpet" (F & Eb) provides other possibilities for this "voice". Remember the lower register, boys and girls? It is a legitimate register for the trumpet. Why are so many focused on the higher and dbl-high octave range? Just "hitting" notes up there -- almost always devoid of tone -- seems to be the "notch-on-the-belt" mentality.
Give that lower-register voice a try. It may fall on welcoming ears.

Robert Rowe

"...you cain't polish a turd!..." (old Southern expression)

Sooner · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:00 pm Post subject:

Blutch · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject:

I've played the Bb/A/G picc from Kanstul. Every one of the keys is a comprimise even though there are different bells and leadpipes for each key... add yet another key to that horn and I don't think it will be better.

I think in these days you need a kick ass Bb/A picc (Stomvi Master for me) and if you play a lot of baroque music a real good G picc with two bells - a small one and a big one. I think the four valve Schilke is a good choice.

I used to have a Blackburn G/A which was great in both keys. I often missed having a Bb, but since I sold it I only occaisionally miss the G..... like this week when I have two Vivaldi Glorias to do.

Some day a G picc will be in my arsenal.

Just my 2 cents.

MA

Brian Moon · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:54 am Post subject:

Maybe it would help if you explain your train of thought. That will make it easier to explain possibly.

Why would they sound lower than the horns?