Music Education, and the American Orchestra

[matzentrpt]

I would like to start a discussion on music education, and the toll it takes on the American Orchestra. I would like to say a few of my opinions, and then I would love to hear what others have to say about this as well.

Have any of you noticed, that most young people once they have decided to quit playing an instrument and quit their music program at their school, rarely decide to come to orchestral/classical music concerts?
Even the students that graduate from highschool after spending four years in a band program many times don't show much interest in classical music once they have advanced from their ensemble they participated in previously.

It is my understanding that many times the roll of the (or a) music director of an orchestra usually heads up an education outreach program that makes efforts to stimulate interest in this genre of music. I think that perhaps they are fighting an uphill battle due to (some) public school educators that teach kids to push buttons and play notes (to sound good at "festival") rather than teach music.

I am not intending to start a band director bashing, I believe that the jobs they have are the most difficult and tedious, and deserve nothing but respect, especially the ones who do their jobs well.

Please post, I really can use opinions from all around the board on this issue, because I intend to write a paper for a class of mine that is called "Realities of Orchestral Life" ..... Thanks in advance- Max Matzen-
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Max Matzen, DMA
Associate Professor of Trumpet
Utah State University

[PH]

The main thing is, do we create people who love music and are discerning enough to be attracted to quality music for the rest of their lives? I think that in this respect we actually have a mixed answer. In my experience, the majority of the audience for jazz consists of former high school jazz musicians. The same can not be said for classical music. I find that the vast majority of high school jazz band students seem to continue to enjoy listening to recorded and live jazz long after they quit playing. The jazz students often seem to continue to play in a more limited avocational way as well.

I agree that too much of American music education is about "putting on a show" and not enough of it is about creating musical people...either musicians or audience.

However, I think the above mentioned difference between life-long participation as an audience for jazz (which is primarily an American music) as opposed to classical music (which is primarily a European music) has much more to do with culture and cultural relevancy.

[ComebackMan]

This is certainly nothing new. I played in high school and college bands until 1962, then took almost 40 years off. Since I started playing again, I have played with three different community bands, playing marches, symphonies, jazz, etc.

While I enjoy playing almost anything, I can count on one hand the number of non jazz type performances I have attended. Not that I like all jazz (some of it sounds like noise to me), but in general jazz is just so much more uplifting than classical. I very much appreciate the musicianship of well done classical, but the emotional impact on me of the music itself is much less than the impact of jazz. Some of this is no doubt due to my cultural background, but I don't think all of it is. There is just something about some jazz that is more "human" (?).

So, I don't know that the educational system is failing, although it could certainly be improved. It seems to me that jazz simply has a more basic appeal to human beings. Now if we could only eliminate rock!!!

Larry
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[bandman322]

I could not disagree more when it comes to people not attending classical events. I live in a relatively small city (Lafayette, LA) and we have great attendance for classical events, and we could use more. Tonight is a Marine Corps Reserve Band concert and it will be held in a 2400 seat auditorium. I would guess that at least 1800 people will attend this concert. When one of the major military bands comes to Lafayette not an empty seat can be found. Our Acadiana Symphony Orchestra (a very fine small city orchestra) plays to near sold out houses for their entire season.

Our community concerts series brings in groups like the Empire Brass and Canadian Brass, and they play to crowds of over 1000. Pearlman played here a few years ago at $75/seat to a sold out house. Our Broadway series sells over 2000 season tickets and Opera Touring companies sell out every performance.

Our community is so starved for classical performances that it is not uncommon for high school bands to bring in an audience of 1500 for a concert. This summer we had about 12-15 performances of the youth version of Les Miserables that were all sold out.

I live in "Small Town America". Maybe we do things different here, but I doubt it. Classical music is alive and well at all levels.
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[DaveH]

[Still Trying]

When I was in high school back in the early 60s, there were two high schools in my home town, which had symphony orchestras-as well of course as a marching and concert band. A few years later the school systems were combined and the symphony orchestra programs were scrapped to save money, I guess. No more high school symphonies in my old home town. But most of the exposure I had to symphony music came from the symphony program at school and from thousands of hours of listening to symphony records at home. Not only did we have a rather extensive record library at home, but the high school symphony program provided another extensive library of symphony recordings. And we were all encouraged to borrow the records and listen to how really fine symphonies sounded.

In short, we had the opportunity to learn to appreciate symphony music. And I think one has to learn to appreciate symphony music. I always took my appreciation for Classical musin for granted, until I got married. I was playing in a local symphony at the time. That's how I financed my college education. But anyway I married a woman, who was raised on a farm and never had the time to participate in things like music programs at school. She could barely tolerate symphony music, being a Charlie Pride fan-not that there's anything wrong with Charlie's music. But a few years later my wife took a music appreciation class in college. The teacher taught the class how to listen to Classical music. I just took for granted everyone could hear things like counter melodies. I learned from her that until she was taught to recognize them and to be able to separate them in her mind, they had just run together and sounded like noise. And there are a lot of other things like that that she had to learn. Now she enjoys symphony music almost as much as I do. She had been missing out on one of life's greatest pleasures that had to be accessed through training.

I guess all this is to say, because of the music kids grow up listening to, I think they can hear and appreciate jazz, rock, and other contemporary forms of music much easier than they can symphonic music. They are not taught to listen to and understand Classical music. It would be nice if music appreciation was taught in high school or even before. A generation that cannot appreciate symphony music is being deprived of a real blessing. It would also create a larger audience for symphonies, and help preserve a form of culture that is becoming increasingly more difficult to sustain. And appreciating Classical music does not mean that they would stop appreciating all the other forms of music. Our culture has suffered the musical losses through the years. For example, except for military bands, we've already seen the demise of professional bands like Goldman's and Sousa's. There may be a few around in Europe, but when was the last time you saw one in the USA? How many large dance bands are still in business, except for the few that continue on the strength of the name recognition of long deceased leaders-like Glenn Miller.

Oh well, forgive the novel. I just happen to feel strongly about this subject.
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What do we have that we did not receive, and if we received it, why do we glory, as if we received it not?

[PH]

[Guy NoVa]

When I was in public elementary school in Rochester, NY, the Eastman School, and Howard Hanson specifically, took an active role in introducing students to serious music. He would visit schools -- often! -- to present brief concerts and to explain to the audience what they were going to hear and what to listen for. I trace my lifelong love of music directly to this friendly introduction by Mr. Hanson. We also regularly visited Rochester's theaters and art museums.

What do we have today that is anything like this? My children have attended what I consider to be some of the best public schools in this country, but if they had not been in the band program, their school-based exposure to music would have been just about zero. Nowadays the schools are so concerned about doing well on the latest round of standardized tests that everything they do is focused on that objective. Pile a tight budget on top of that and pretty soon arts education is out the window.

Yes, it is true that parents should expose their children to the arts. But is that a practical proposal if the parents' idea of "music" does not extend beyond rap or punk and their idea of "art" is limited to limited-edition collectors' plates?
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[ADziuk]

I think some of that has to do with the quality of the arrangements that kids get put in front of them. Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is by any means the whole or majority part of the reason, but is an influence. A kid playing in an average high school jazz band gets to play the actual music the pros played. Look at the Essentially Ellington competition.

Then take a look at the absolute mountain of unabaiting crap that gets pumped out by the publishing companies for young band, and how far a cry that is from the music that a professional classical musician plays.

[matzentrpt]

I think there are some great points made so far. Is anyone here a band director (or was)? If so, could you please post your thoughts about this thread?
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Max Matzen, DMA
Associate Professor of Trumpet
Utah State University

[Billy B]

Band directors are just as responsible for killing music education as the administration. They are more worried about keeping the numbers up so they don't lose staff than they are about teaching music. They beat the kids up with marching band so they can put on a show for the musically ignorant to justify their existance. Academic advisors load the kids up, with no thought about time the kids may use for music, art, drama, etc.. I know students who could graduate at the semester of their senior year, yet had to quit band in 10th grade because some advisor told them they wouldn't have time to study. There is more musical talent in the kids who have quit band than those still in. The arts in our public schools are being flushed down the toilet while the teachers stand idly by and wring their hands doing nothing to advocate arts education. I don't even see these guys at performances. Doc is in town and there are no band directors in the audience? I am all for holding teachers accountable. The first thing they can do is see if these guys can even play an instrument at the advanced high school level.
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[DaveH]

I am in the school "business" myself, and I am somewhat amused - maybe that is not the best word; maybe amazed is better - by what is going on in education these days. What exactly are the priorities in education? This has been changing a whole lot over the years, and we still aren't sure what it's all about... What exactly is it that a student is supposed to learn and know? What is an educated person anyway? Is it all about supplying the economic "machine" with personnel; that is, serving to supply the needs of the labor force? Being first in the world in test scores? Is it test scores in general? Public relations? The No Child Left Behind "adventure"? Surviving the latest round of budget cuts? Addressing various unfunded government mandates that represent political "knee-jerk" responses to various social problems that are supposed to be solved by the schools? Is education something to be sought and valued for its own sake? Is there a reason to learn something or become educated in things that may not have a practical application to daily life; for example, is there any reason to study Latin? Or, is education simply synonymous with job training?

If it were not so serious and tragic, it would almost be comical...

Sometimes, I am actually surprised that music programs even exist anymore...period. And, what are they supposed to do? I know, I know, but what is the REAL answer? Entertain the parents? Support the sports program? Be a vehicle for community PR efforts? March in parades? Am I, as a school teacher, in the education "business," or the PR/advertising business?

[tpter1]

I am also in the band director business. I would agree that performance-based programs (those that focus on the "concert" or the "festival"...we've all been guilty of that at one time or another, I think) are largely to blame. I also agree that much of the stuff that is out there for us to put in front of our kids is to blame. There is some, though, that is very worthwhile. There are some who recognize the imortance of instilling a lifelong desire.

I also think that there is alot of "bad press" about classical music being "geeky". Maybe that comes back around to us.

Music education is not mandated. There is no mandatory assessment, no comprehensive exam, no national standard holding us accountable. (The MENC National standards are VOLUNTARY. BIG mistake there). So, what is important is assessed, right? Check the local news or state ed web sites. What gets the most attention?

We are assessed by our performances, rather than the sophistication of our kids. We all have kids who we know are self-motivated, but the ones in the back row, the ones who never practice, why are they there?

We as educators are missing the boat somewhere to be sure. To spin off this, and possibly take it in a direction that could have some impact, because it can, what is it that motivated YOU to become a performer? What experience(s)? What would you do as a music director to enhance conert attendance? Please share that...if I can provide it, and others can, we can make some positive changes.

Unfortunately in this instance, DaveH is, again, very on the mark about pressures to "bring home the hardware" as pH said and its conflict with making musicians.

A professor whom I took a class with this past summer posed an interesting approach: instead of merely giving a concert, we should show what our kids are doing. Call it a "Learning Show". Displays of student work, performance of original works, chamber groups, etc.

There have been in the past many different models of curriculum design that aim at lifelong learning, such as Arts Propel. It comes down to what we view of ourselves, and what the administration views us as. (Are we here to educate, entertain or just not embarass the school?)

The uptake is that there are now methods available and research being done that shed lihgt on how to create thoughtful musicianship, such as a recent article in the Music Educators Journal about teaching practice routines and problem solving. There is music being composed by a FEW composers that is very powerful, thought provoking, rewarding and challenging way beyond tonic-dominant relatinships commonly found with the occasional cool percussion lick. The key for us lies in getting community involved, administration on board, and getting out of "trophy mode".

Maybe for their part, local symphonies can get more involved in school music programs during things like career days, putting on school assembly programs (the Albany (NY) Symphony has something like that called Dogs of Desire..cool name! Sounds like a Thrash band!).

I don't think rock is to blame. I think it's like any other genre...it has it's hacks, to be sure, but there are/were some very accomplished musicians doing some very interesting things. It's another way in.

Ok. War and Peace has reached its conclusion.

[BinSB]

I'd like to offer a different perspective. As Doc Severinsen's road manager and former personnel manager for 2 symphony orchestras, I have seen the audiences in the last 18 years change. What we can't forget is that American culture has changed as well.

From the symphony orchestra point of view, they have to compete for the average person's/family's entertainment dollar with dozens of other organizations. On any given night, one of Doc's pops shows is competing with ballet, an NBA game, an NFL game (matinees), Natalie Merchant, HS basketball, the school play, homework, company parties, an episode of The Apprentice, etc...It is NOT easy to get people to come to classical concerts unless they really want to be there.

Couple that with the dwindling music education within our elementary & HS and we're raising a generation of children who largely do not have an awareness of the arts...other than MTV.

Orchestras have to make an EVENT out of every concert. It has to be marketed that way to catch the attention of prospective ticket buyers.

Let's look at stage presence, too. How often have we witnessed a concert where the musicians look bored off their rockers? I see it so often I'm disgusted. It was (and still is) one of my biggest pet peeves when I was personnel manager. How can you expect an audience to believe in what you're doing when they see musicians who are yawning, slouching or dressed sloppily? When I've brought the issue up, I'd hear, "They're not supposed to be looking...they're hear to just listen." Excuse me. That's complete BS. If that's the case, then they can just go buy a recording of Solti and the Chicago Symphony and listen to the sounds of Mahler over their hi-fi at home.

I went to a concert recently with a famous violin soloist (who shall remain nameless). I was so disappointed. He dialed in the whole technically impeccable performance. The audience could feel it...not an ounce of soul to his playing. No standing ovation and lackluster applause yet he played an encore. I cringed as I sat in my seat, embarrassed for this violinist. I found out months later from his manager that he was po'd at the orchestra's management for some perceived slight. Fine. Be peeved. But be professional...you don't take that kind of behavior out on stage. You are a soloist by the grace of the audience...the people that pay your salary! How many first-time concert goers thought "Gee. This concert sucked. I'm never going to hear the symphony again."? You just don't know!

Now as a personnel manager who dealt with many "fresh out of the conservatory" musicians, it was always refreshing to have these new musicians who had enthusiasm and an open-mindedness. Inevitably, by the end of the 1st year, my fresh musicians would be dark & jaded...thanks to circumstances and influences of bitter colleagues. Students need to know that life as a symphony musician is NOT glamorous, is NOT about being the center of attention and is NOT always financially stable. Believe it or not, I have seen the Juilliard-generated musician who finds the "starving musician" ideal to be romantic. And then the dismay: "No one told me it was going to be like this."

As for band leaders in HS - I saw one group where the band teacher was more interested in his purple suit and looking cool than whether his kids were adequately prepared to play for Doc at a master class. I was just horrified. As was Doc. To his credit, Doc spent the next 2 hrs working with those kids - talking about breathing, practice, etc...- until he had those kids playing their a**es off. I heard so many parents saying, "They've NEVER sounded like this. How did Doc do it?"

ETA: By no means do I think all band teachers are like this. On the contrary there are many out there who are completely dedicated. This just happened to be the bad example that sticks out in my mind.

At whatever level, teachers & students both need to respect the music and give it and each others its due. I believe it makes for awareness in both future performers and audience-goers (whether classical, pop, jazz, rock, etc...).

matzentpt - I'd love to see your paper after you write it!
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[trumpetman4Jesus]

I think the Band directors have ALOT of responsibility in encouraging kids to persue music either by playing or listening. While growing up my band teacher -he perfered to be called music director (see what I mean - he took it up a notch) really encouraged me to persue music. He made me listen to "classical" and opera. He took an active roll in my education. I took private lesson at Ball State University while I was a kid. My teacher was a doctoral student and played in the symphony in Muncie. The feeling I got was if you don't play and listen to classical music there is something wrong with you. Jazz was for people who couldn't play legit. But that was just my experience.

My son was playing in band for the last couple of years and then quit. His teacher did not make it fun. He was just learning how to play. He learned to play a "d" 1-3. When we looked at music, I would ask him "what note is that?" he would respond 1-3. I said no it is D!

That is not music education.
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