Xeno pushed in bands

[hazmat]

OK I know many people talk about Strads pushed in bands but what about Xenos? I know that many schools are now pushing Xenos. IMHO they should go back to pushing Strads.

Matt

[trumpetmike]

Wouldn't it be easier not to push any one brand?

One make of trumpet won't suit everybody - if a director tells everybody to play one brand they are doing the students a disservice, whatever the brand is.

[Trptbenge]

In my experience with music stores and bands I have found that certain music stores will develop a relationship with certain band directors and then become their recommended source for instruments. If the dealer is a Bach dealer then the students will tend to have Bach horns and if he is a Yamaha dealer then Yamahas tend to be the horn of choice. We have a couple of stores in Atlanta that carry both so they have can promote both.

I have a friend that owns a music store in Alabama and they carry Bach. One of his salesman mentioned to me once that he wished they carried Yamahas - like their competitor because he gets asked about Yamahas all the time.

When I was growing up neither music store in town carried Bachs. One carried Selmer Paris Trumpets and the other one was a Conn dealer. In High School the Conn dealer, and a trumpet player, spent a lot of time helping with the band so many of us played Conns. I played a Constellation.

It seems that it depends a great deal on which music store has the best relationship with the band director.

Mike

[MarkHeuer]

Whether they "push" (using your word) Strads or Xenos doesn't matter. Both are high quality horns that are similarly priced and will work just fine for almost any type of performance.

[JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR]

Trptbenge said it all!

There might be a few school band directors out there able to answer this
question: Just how far would a music store go to get their "friendly" band
teaching buddies to strongly recommend the brands they have to offer?

Just how far might a school band teacher go to get their "friendly" music
store buddies to strongly support his band with all kinds of extra services
and favors? Band teachers might not chime in on this, but perhaps some
private teachers would be more likely to offer some thoughts.

In my area when a parent calls asking for a particular brand of trumpet,
I can always tell what music store services the school their child attends.

My experience is that the teachers often come very close to insisting on
one brand or another, almost every time! They won't actually cross that
line, but they will strongly imply that the child will somehow suffer if the
recommended brand is not used.

I even hear about teachers saying that kids won't be able to progress, or
that they will sound different from all the other students and actually hurt
the band program if they refuse to use the one acceptable brand.

Anyone out there bold enough to comment on all this?

[bandman322]

I hate to say this, but I think the horns that end up in a band room have to do with the promotions offered to the music stores from manufacturers. Many of the stores that moved from Selmer products to Yamaha did so not because of the great quality of Yamaha, but because of the financial considerations involved.

Sell up to a certain number of horns from a company and next year they get a price break from that company. Do they pass this price break on to the consumer? NO!!! They make larger profits.

If the local music store really had the best interest of the young player in mind they would have several different lines for each instrument. If you are lucky they have Yamaha and one other line. They can get you what ever you want from a "jobber" but as far as actually having the line -- it is in name only.

Yamaha covers the whole band, and does it well. They still produce horns of good quality, and the old when in doubt go with Yamaha has served band directors well. The problem is that if you ask most band directors about the lines like Kanstul, Calicchio, Lawler, Callet and other top end horns they have no idea what to tell you -- but they can all say that Xeno and Strads are great horns.

Beginner model horns fall into the same problems. I have been looking into the Getzen horns and I think they would be a nice horn to have in my band room. In flutes I have always been a Gemeinhardt fan, and always liked the clarinets from Noblet, and saxophones from Vito (Japan). All of a sudden I find that all of my woodwinds and brass instruments are coming from Yamaha. Why? Price breaks and incentives from Yamaha to the local music stores. The other reason is because it is easy to say, "just get a Yamaha". All I can say is thank God that Yamaha makes good instruments in all areas of the band.

Sorry for the tirade, but I think we need to do what is best for our students, not what is easy for us and best for the music stores.
_________________
C - Harrelson 750 Modified Bach Strad
Picc - Schilke P5-4
Flugel - Kanstul ZKF1525
Bb - Bach Strad 180ML-37

"To be a teacher you need to be as good a performer as you can be: you'll have more to impart to your students musically." - John Haynie

[timcates]

when I was band directing (5+ years ago) the only thing I ever told the music stores was to quit selling "step-up" horns to my students (even putting a "ban" on the step-up horn they pushed the most b/c a Strad was only 20% more and was usually at least twice the instrument) - I encouraged my students to try various pro instruments (including Strads and top of the line Yamahas) and see what worked best for them and was available as a resource to test play their potential choices as needed. If the school wants the horns to be a matched set, they should buy a matched set and check them out to the kids IMHO.

[drtrumpet1]

Well, Tom, I can tell you're from Texas! You just described the situation at most schools around here. I just started teaching at a Dallas-area middle school in August. The parents had some questions for me about the horns they needed to buy for their kids. They had asked the director of the high school band if they needed to get anything specific in preparation for marching band and symphonic band in high school, and they had the same questions for me. I called the high school director to find out if he had any requirements. He said he doesn't have any "requirements," per se, but "strongly recommends" that all of his trumpets have silver Bach Strad 37's and play on Bach 3C mouthpieces. This coming from a clarinet player! I am willing to give most directors the benefit of the doubt, in that I don't think they're receiving any kickbacks from the music stores for sales, but I think that these directors just see most of their fellow students in college playing Bachs and see that the local store carries primarily Bach, and so they think it's the be-all, end-all of trumpets. I've spent the last three months trying to educate the parents about the different options they have, and why they don't need to spend $2200 before taxes on a new Bach 43. I actually have a student that paid that much for his new Bach. I just wish I was teaching him before they bought that horn.

Let me also say that I don't have a problem with Bach's. I played a Bach 37 for 14 years, and it served me just fine through many high-level ensembles. The problem with a situation like this is that it stifles competition, and takes advantage of people that don't know any better. When I started teaching down here, I couldn't believe how much the trumpet market has been monopolized. I'm making headway at my school, slowly but surely, but here in north Texas, it will be a while before the Bach stranglehold can be broken.
_________________
Bach Model 37 Bb
Stomvi Mahler C
Reynolds Argenta Cornet

[GordonH]

[bandman322]

[_dcstep]

Drtrumpet1, go introduce yourself to Roger Holmes at Brook May's LBJ store. He'll treat your students fairly and give them a choice of Bach, Conn, Yamaha, King, Getzen, etc.

Also, introduce yourself to Dave Leonnig at HornHaven.com (based in DFW) to get a line on Stomvi and Kanstul.

Both those sources will treat your students right. (At Brook Mays, they have to be careful whom they speak with, otherwise they WILL pay $2200 for a Bach, but Roger will treat them right).

Mention Dave Stephens sent you and then make sure your students mention your name. Tell the kids to buy silver trumpets and the HS director will never know the difference.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[hazmat]

I think band directors should not puch anything. But methods programs in universities and colleges tend to give recommendations on what are the best. Bach Strad was probably at the top of the list at the time. My only point was that a Xeno cost a little more than a Strad but nobody I know (at least around here) thinks the Xeno is better. Too stuffy, bad intonation, etc. So that was my argument. If you're going to be pushing horns don't step up to a horn just because it's new.

Matt

[_dcstep]

[hazmat]

To each his own I guess.

Matt

[drtrumpet1]

[_dcstep]

Oh, THAT Dr. Trumpet... Sorry.

Roger Holmes is not a trumpet player, BUT I've trained him well. He was two years in the One O'clock and an "in demand" studio player. He's a staff arranger for Hal Leonard and does all kinds of contract work. In other words, he's a real musician. He plays monster sax in my rock/soul/funk group. Anyway, as you know, they MUST seek out Roger. A random person at BM is death.

Can't you sneak those Stomvi USAs by the HS BD?? Those are fantastic trumpets.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[drtrumpet1]

I've heard good things about Roger. As far as what I'm selling to the kids, I feel like I really need to draw the line between being their teacher and a salesperson. I would love for all my kids to be playing either the USA, or the Stomvi Elite (which I prefer). The MS band director doesn't like the USA's as much as the Elites or Strad's, but he will put up with them. I was just amazed when I started teaching at the amount of preconceived notions and prejudices that exist in high school band programs around here. I think they all take marching band too seriously, anyway, and all too often they look at the good of the program at the expense of the students.
_________________
Bach Model 37 Bb
Stomvi Mahler C
Reynolds Argenta Cornet

[GordonH]

Just for information:

In the UK, the Xeno is 20 to 30% cheaper than the Bach.
This is surprising given the weak position of the US dollar these days.
Bach do not appear to have reduced their prices in line with exchange rate.
If they had, the trade price would be 20 to 30% lower than it currently is.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[GordonH]

And I say that with tears in my eyes as someone who exports from the Uk to the US....
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[_dcstep]