Monette Poll.

[trpt.hick]

Well, here's another quandry....

I have a ton of respect from Manny L. and know that he has chosen Monette because he likes them. But, the sound clips posted here on TH (and yes, they sound terrific) are of high and loud licks. OF COURSE they sound brilliant! I don't think that they can be offered as proof positive that Monette horns are "brilliant" overall. Do you?

DH

[trumpetchops]

I just listened to the clips again. There are low notes and high. It all sounds great. Some people want brilliant and some want to hear a darker sound. I personally like a darker sound.

Just because you don't like a dark sound doesn't make it bad.

I will say it again. The trumpet doesn't make the sound. The player does. I would bet if we asked Manny to make that trumpet sound dark he could. If we asked him to make it sound more brilliant then he did, he could.

[dbacon]

[trpt.hick]

Trumpetchops:

Sure, a good player can change colors. Nonetheless, some horns tend to play darker or brighter than others......don't think there is much controversy there.

[trumpetchops]

If a player can change their sound then we can't say that a horn plays dark or bright just from listening. Maybe it is the player or maybe it is the horn.

I find that it is bad to generalize. (Monett's play dark and stuffy and Bach's play bright and cherry) because there are exceptions.

There is no proof one way or the other. I also don't think Monette trumpets are a fad.

[trpt.hick]

Trumpetchops,

So what you're saying is that horns don't have tendencies? Again, I agree that a good player can play a variety of colors on any instrument, but when it is played in its most centered and easiest way, don't you think some horns naturally are darker than others? Otherwise, ALL trumpets would sound the same. If this were true, then everyone could play just one brand and model! Then, the player would be the only variable.

Along the same lines, do you also think that mouthpieces make any difference? Should we all play the same brand and size, too? After all, a good player can sound bright or dark on just about anything out there.

Thing is, the equipment (mpc. and horn) DOES have certain "natural" characteristics which help it zero in on a particular type of sound and feel that a player is wanting to get easily ("naturally"). Maybe you don't really disagree, and we are merely miscommunicating. (?)

DH

[trumpetchops]

[trpt.hick]

Trumpetchops,

I'm not trying to argue. I am just saying that Monette horns (at least every one that I have ever played on or heard someone else play on.....including some great players) sound darker than most other horns. Nothing wrong with that! If it satisfies a player's concept of tone desired, GREAT.

Earlier, someone said that Monette horns were very full and brilliant, and then refered to the Manny licks as proof. I'm just saying that these licks are bound to be brilliant because they are high and loud and require a musical concept of brilliance to go with them. (Like we both said, a good player can change concepts and tonal quality as needed.)

I guess my point is that I feel that Monette horns are overall darker than most other brands. Now can we agree? (This is not a criticism of a Monette horn sound. Just an observation.)

DH

[trumpetchops]

[trpt.hick]

[etownfwd]

tossing in 2 cents here,
to answer a previous poster's question about whether or not Monette currently uses a one piece bell. He actually used a two piece bell on a horn which I recieved in July of this year...FWIW
-efwd

[JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR]

Yup, that was PhxHorn earlier calling Mr. Monette a "flat out liar" about
this issue as I recall. Its amazing how much venom some people have
towards Monette trumpets. I could probably list fifty Monette bash fests
on TH in just the last few months.

I'm also amazed at how some people feel compelled to bash artists like
Wynton Marsalis here too. There's a thread in "Performers" now with an
awful lot of Wynton bashing titled something like "How good is this guy"
or something like that. I keep wondering why people do this... Does the
bashing make them feel superior somehow? Perhaps all these folks feel
they know more than Dave Monette about trumpet making, or they can
give some private instruction to Wynton. I have a few theories about it,
but I think I'll keep them to myself...

The ones that get me are the conspiracy buffs that think Monette's horns
are just a big scam. It is really something. How about the ones that think
it's just a fad, or that the big fad is over? Monette has a one year waiting
list, and a half dozen other makers are doing their best at making similar
horns now too. Some dead or dying fad, huh? Surely there must be some
worse brand of trumpets out there these people could spend time ranting
about. Can anybody tell me why people get angry when they think about
a certain brand of trumpet, or a certain artist. Wynton has won grammys
in both classical and jazz two years in a row, and he's done more for jazz
than anyone else over the last twenty years. He is an absolutely amazing
player, and yet people do everything they possibly can to tear him down.
Do all these people really know more than Monette? Or Wynton Marsalis?
They must think they do...

Your Friend, Tom in Texas
JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR
_________________
7 Monettes, 9 Taylors, 8 Courtois, 8 Stomvis
7 Lawlers, 4 Leblancs, 3 Bessons, 3 Kanstuls
2 Blackburns, 9 Schilkes, 8 Bachs, 5 Selmers
8 Yamahas, 5 Committees, 2 Edwards Gen X
4 Marcinkeiwicz, 9 Harrelsons, and 4 Eclipses

[donovan]

Tom,

I would agree with your points. I would also mention that I think many of these people have way to much time on their hands, why else would they care so much? I mean, if the horn isn't for you, don't buy it. I will never understand the people who critisize Wynton, Maynard, Arturo, etc. I'm pretty sure none of the people who bash these musicians could even approach their ability...

Besides, I think what Monette has done is great. Think about what was happening in trumpet design in the early 90's. There wasn't anything new, not really. A big part of that is because the prices for trumpets are so cheap, that there isn't enough financial incentive to work on R&D. Monette comes along with a whole new price point, and now we have -lots- of choices, comparatively (Eclipse, Monette, Lawler, WT, Schilke, Inderbinen, Galileo, Taylor and others).

I'm personally contemplating purchasing a Monette right now. Why? Because I want to. I honestly don't play well enough really to justify a need, but I've wanted one for a while, and I'm at a point in my trumpet playing life where I need something that will motivate me to practice...
_________________
Donovan Bankhead
donovan@erniewilliamson.com
www.erniewilliamson.com

[trumpetchops]

Tom,

I started to type all that stuff but I just decided to give up.

Thanks for doing it.

[Boy meets Horn]

Is it bad that i feel dumber fo having read this entire thread, bc i do. Monettes are good horns. There are several other good horns, I have played on Bachs, Schilkes, Yamahas, Conns. Each of these brands have horns that are worth playing on.

That being said, if i had the money to buy a monette, i prbly would. But only if I had backup equipment. Monettes are very good horns, but they dont seem that practical to me. The majority of the trumpet players out there do ensmble work, and monettes suck for that type of work. I have been to concerts where one guy was playing a monette and the rest were bachs and you could hear the monette, over the rest of the trumpets. Thats bad.

In the end, it doesnt matter. If you own a bach and you love playing on it, great. If you play on a $15,000 monette and you enjoy it, great. If you dont like listening to someone playing on a monette, then dont pay to hear them play, that simple.

This thread has gone absolutely nowhere. All it shows are ppl taking sides over which equipment they prefer. Who cares? I dont, as long as you sound good.

[trumpetchops]

[etownfwd]

The points that JPC, Donovan, and trumpetchops raise are spot-on in my opinion. Being a Monette player, I don't really care if people like or dislike my equipment. I know that -in the end- the sound that I am able to produce on my Monette is exactly what I have been hearing in my head (and hopelessly struggling to play on a Bach) for about ten years.

Now, that being said, I think Dave Monette is a fantastic trumpet builder and he is a very shrewd businessman. Yes, his prices are high, but I believe that if we -as a trumpet community- all found a horn that was able to give us that sound we strive for day-in-and-day-out that we -collectively, again- should rejoice! I also doubt that we would hesitate to pay any price for a horn if it achieved these aforementioned lofty goals and expectations. Now, Dave's business practices are most of the reason why the horns are not for everyone. He has alienated many players from his brand by refusing to build horns that are exactly "what they wanted". But then, it's never been about what they want. If it were, then all Monette trumpets would be inconsistant, and I believe that that is why Dave has been successful; He has been consistant with his product. If I were to beat up on the inconsistant construction practices of Selmer in the 1980's when they were the parent company of Vincent Bach Corp., I would be verbally thrashed by all Bach lovers out there. I should know, I used to be a Bach Lover! For some reason if we have the means, passion, and drive to purchase a Monette that makes all Monette players either bad or wrong because "their sound is too dark or life-less". Having a Monette means you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I know that a well-known artist (who will remain nameless) who frequents this site has said that dave's horns are great, but he needed more resistance in his horns. Because Dave wouldn't build a horn that had some resistance, this gentleman chose to deal with a different company, but he does not speak ill of Monette, except for the occasional quip regarding the high prices.

Ultimately, If you want to complain about the prices, then that's fine with me. Play what you want and let this issue die! Monette will keep on making horns and so will Getzen, Bach, Eclipse, Galileo, Taylor, Destino, and many others! It doesn't matter if you have a cyber pi$$ing-match saying "My horn is better than yours is!" Besides, we all know that those cheap indian horns on Ebay are WAY better than a Monette any day!
-efwd

P.S.- anyone may feel free to debate this with me via PM, but this thread has gotten ridiculous[/i]

[RNelson]

[donovan]

Hey Ray,

I for one wasn't really talking about your comments, I was speaking mainly from criticizms that you hear in general. As for Wynton's "On the 20th Century" CD, I actually dig the sound he gets on the recording. He's playing 20th century music, unconventional music, with a new, unconventional sounding instrument. I dig it. I may not personally want that sound for myself (or I might), but I can still enjoy it. I guess that's my point. I don't have to want to sound like a certain player to want to play like them. I really don't want to sound like Tom Harrell, but I really dig his playing, and his sound works for him.

Frequently critics are like "venomous serpents who delight in hissing" (W.B. Daniel). I for one don't understand why people get so worked up over Monette. If you like it, and can afford it, buy it. If not, leave it alone. I do know of pro's that play them. I also know tons of pro's that play Bach Strads. The joy is in the fact that we have a choice. Play what you want - vintage Conn Constellations (MF, Miles, Chet), new Conn Vintage Ones (Paul Stephens, Nick Payton, Carl Fisher), vintage Bach's (CSO, Byron Stripling), newer Bach's (Scott Englebright, countless others), Blackburn, Schilke, whatever...
_________________
Donovan Bankhead
donovan@erniewilliamson.com
www.erniewilliamson.com

[RNelson]